8 ms·

Dropping NFL audiences have more to with the subpar product the NFL is producing these days, than it has to do with national anthem protests. The league is shoo

by scurvy 10y ago

Dropping NFL audiences have more to with the subpar product the NFL is producing these days, than it has to do with national anthem protests. The league is shooting itself in the foot via mismanagement.

PKop 10y ago
If the league agrees with you on this reasoning (I've heard it pushed a lot recently so I'm sure some do) they will fail to address the real contributing factor for many abandoning the league this year which is: the national anthem protests, and to some degree the multi season string of domestic violence amongst players and the leagues handling of theses issues. Those are the 2 reasons I and a lot of the people I talk to have stopped watching. Subpar product on field has never been discussed. The quality of play seems he same as it has any other year (from some highlights I've seen... but I haven't watched a game so I guess I wouldn't know).
- scurvy 10y ago
  No Fun League: Why all the celebration bans? Come on. It's ridiculous. Is it a catch? This seems to change every week. No more hits: It's good for players' health, but maybe the players should change their style of play and not go up for that super high pass across the middle and show some self-preservation rather than penalizing a defender. Reviews: this can be reviewed but this cannot. Why? If the ultimate goal is to get it right, everything should be reviewable. Officiating: Tumbled to terrible quality recently. Even the league, which is loathe to criticize its officials, has admitted that officials have screwed up that changed the outcome of several games. This is historically bad. Games in far off lands: This needs to end. Now. Preseason: Stop making ticketholders buy these worthless games. Should be 2 preseason games. NFL doesn't make the networks carry preseason games, why should season ticketholders foot the bill? Teams moving around for money: Talk about fan alienation.
  - caltelt 10y ago
    Teams moving around for money: I couldn't agree more. I was recently living in STL and this left a really bad taste in my mouth, and I'm a Packer fan who will never have to worry about this. It really pulls to the forefront that these teams are purely profit-driven, which in professional sports is a given, but gives the appearance of excessive greed. In some ways it's the antithesis of all of those feel-good sports movies where they play through adversity to overcome. I'd be interested in knowing how these sorts of stunts play out in a more macro sense. As a whole, it may be a net profit for the NFL, but I wonder if it's more of a medium-term win.
    - cardiffspaceman 10y ago
      The Rams moving to St. Louis didn't sit too well with this native of Los Angeles. Roman Gabriel! Fearsome Foursome! Come on!!!
  - hxegon 10y ago
    I don't watch football, but the rams going to LA and NOT THE RAIDERS. WHAT?!
    - bcoates 10y ago
      The Rams have spent half their history in Southern California, them moving back isn't weird.
  - scurvy 10y ago
    Also, Thursday night football is trash. The matchups are bad and everyone hates the short week.
- icebraining 10y ago
  The jingoism in the US is always surprising. Why is the anthem even playing in a national game? Why should the players even be forced into this display of subservience before doing their job? It's not like they're representing the national team! What a weird society.
  - b2600 10y ago
    It's simply tradition. I've been to a couple of sports events in the U.S. and it doesn't seem overtly nationalistic or jingoistic.
    - scurvy 10y ago
      God Save America in the 7th inning stretch post 9/11 couldn't get more jingoistic.
  - carsongross 10y ago
    It is weird. I think it is in part because America is the first enlightenment nation. We have no blood or deep history binding us together, so superficial and melodramatic shows of solidarity become much more important in generating a stable sense social identity. Think of it as a bunch of deracinated individuals attempting to say "see, 'we' are a 'we'!" The puritans were virtue-signallers par excellance, so that probably also flows through to what you see today.
    - lostlogin 10y ago
      What do you mean by "first enlightenment nation"? I haven't heard this before. I thought the ideas of the enlightenment were first in various European countries but I don't think that's what you mean?
      - b2600 10y ago
        Built on the foundations of the enlightenment? Without the historical baggage of Europe? Monarchies, feudalism, etc.
- mozumder 10y ago
  Literally no one cares about the anthem protests. They don't even show them during the games. The big problem is that a lot of star players were injured at the beginning of the season - Brady, Romo, Dez Bryant, JJ Watt, RG III, Adrian Peterson, etc. Just so many injuries this year. And we have millennials doing a lot more online games, so we have that competition now.
  - jghn 10y ago
    Brady was suspended, not injured. But your point is still valid.
    - mozumder 10y ago
      Yes. All the suspensions/injuries/retirement (Peyton) aren't helping ratings. The audience wants their stars.
      - jghn 10y ago
        I knew I was missing one when I was thinking about this, and that was Peyton. Thanks
  - PKop 10y ago
    That's not what the polls say. Here's one: https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/poll-main-reason-for-nfl-ratings-drop-due-to-players-kneeling-during-anthem/amp/?client=safari https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/poll-m... But yea, I'm sure it's seems like it wouldn't matter.... to people still watching.
    - mozumder 10y ago
      You can ignore that poll, since it doesn't account for likely viewers that turned away from watching.
carsongross 10y ago
Perhaps. However, there is evidence that the anthem protests are the leading cause of the sharp NFL viewership decline: http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2016/10/05/confirmed-nfl-losing-millions-of-tv-viewers-because-of-national-anthem-protests/#3e9e1e1974b7 http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2016/10/05/confirmed... The NFL product hasn't changed that dramatically this season, and last season was an all-time record. That's not to say that the product itself isn't contributing to the decline, or to dismiss demographic shifts mentioned in a sibling comment, but rather to note that dismissing the ongoing culture-war element out of hand is foolish.
- b2600 10y ago
  That article and the poll it was based on are hardly reliable. The author had previously written this as speculation (he references this in the article) and that poll is viewed with skepticism by the linked article. Rasmussen has a built in sample bias and that's being generous. NFL has contradicted these assertions [1]. [1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/nfl-executives-blame-confluence-of-events-for-ratings-declines-1475853435 http://www.wsj.com/articles/nfl-executives-blame-confluence-...
- swang 10y ago
  the poll that your article cites from another article. and like that article says, (which maybe is why didn't you just link the original article) Rasmussen's polls lean conservative. there is definitely some people not watching because of the protests, but there are people who are just tired of goodell and the dumb crap he pulls. did you hit your wife? 1 game unless the public starts getting more angry about it. smoke weed? 6 game suspension. no no, make that 8 games. or drop 20 spots in the draft. celebrate on a touchdown? flag and a $20k fine later. deflating some footballs in which your team was already punished for doing so but you destroyed your cell phone and now you're making me look dumb? 4 games. all of this and the huge cte stuff the nfl wishes would go away has turned me off to watching any kind of football at all. so... maybe the protests? i bet a large majority of those polled still watch the nfl anyways, even as i sometimes do despite my frustrations. i know a lot of fans who don't give a shit about any of the above. they just want their team to WIN. but the fact of the matter is, the nfl product is terrible this season. it's just not very interesting at all unless you're one of the 5-1 teams
formula1 10y ago
Id like to hear more about this mismanagement. Football as a product is guided by how exciting it is and how good it is as a group event. The types of mismanagement I could imagine is high costs at events or low energy which is the result of players being disinterested, announcers being unenthusiastic or an overall dread associated to fans. I can see how mismanagement can influence it but ai wpuld love to hear of occurences
- douche 10y ago
  There's league mismanagement, starting with the uneven and arbitrary handling of player discipline, questionable attempts to expand the league's reach which have damaged the product on the field, like the London and Thursday night games. Legislation of any sort of entertainment or fun out of the league, such as celebration penalties, taunting penalties, fines against players for wearing non-sanctioned but legal equipment (i.e. different colored shoes, arm-sleeves, eye-black, etc), Hypocrisy about player safety concerns, concussions, domestic violence, recreational drug usage (you can be shot full of Torodol during a game, but not light a blunt in Denver or Seattle, where it is legal, during your off-time), etc. It goes on... There is also rampant team mismanagement. The best teams in the NFL are the best teams in the NFL largely because they have competent, stable front offices and coaching staffs. Hitting on a good quarterback also helps, but isn't necessarily the key, as great quarterbacks in shitty systems can't surmount that handicap by themselves. Some teams shuffle their management every other year, routinely overpay for players, leaving gaping holes in their rosters in other areas, constantly trade away valuable draft picks for over-the-hill veterans, cut players on guaranteed contracts that then count as deadwood eating up their salary cap to no benefit, and many other examples of unsound, short-term thinking. This kind of mismanagement is crippling, because a year of two of whiffing in the draft or mismanaging the salary cap can impact a team for years down the road.
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
I stopped watching a long time ago. I hate that they feel the need to make it like a live action video game with stupid sound effects and graphics that cover most of the screen. Well, that and there's really just not much actual play happening.

by scurvy 10y ago

PKop 10y ago

If the league agrees with you on this reasoning (I've heard it pushed a lot recently so I'm sure some do) they will fail to address the real contributing factor for many abandoning the league this year which is: the national anthem protests, and to some degree the multi season string of domestic violence amongst players and the leagues handling of theses issues. Those are the 2 reasons I and a lot of the people I talk to have stopped watching. Subpar product on field has never been discussed. The quality of play seems he same as it has any other year (from some highlights I've seen... but I haven't watched a game so I guess I wouldn't know).

scurvy 10y ago
No Fun League: Why all the celebration bans? Come on. It's ridiculous. Is it a catch? This seems to change every week. No more hits: It's good for players' health, but maybe the players should change their style of play and not go up for that super high pass across the middle and show some self-preservation rather than penalizing a defender. Reviews: this can be reviewed but this cannot. Why? If the ultimate goal is to get it right, everything should be reviewable. Officiating: Tumbled to terrible quality recently. Even the league, which is loathe to criticize its officials, has admitted that officials have screwed up that changed the outcome of several games. This is historically bad. Games in far off lands: This needs to end. Now. Preseason: Stop making ticketholders buy these worthless games. Should be 2 preseason games. NFL doesn't make the networks carry preseason games, why should season ticketholders foot the bill? Teams moving around for money: Talk about fan alienation.
- caltelt 10y ago
  Teams moving around for money: I couldn't agree more. I was recently living in STL and this left a really bad taste in my mouth, and I'm a Packer fan who will never have to worry about this. It really pulls to the forefront that these teams are purely profit-driven, which in professional sports is a given, but gives the appearance of excessive greed. In some ways it's the antithesis of all of those feel-good sports movies where they play through adversity to overcome. I'd be interested in knowing how these sorts of stunts play out in a more macro sense. As a whole, it may be a net profit for the NFL, but I wonder if it's more of a medium-term win.
  - cardiffspaceman 10y ago
    The Rams moving to St. Louis didn't sit too well with this native of Los Angeles. Roman Gabriel! Fearsome Foursome! Come on!!!
- hxegon 10y ago
  I don't watch football, but the rams going to LA and NOT THE RAIDERS. WHAT?!
  - bcoates 10y ago
    The Rams have spent half their history in Southern California, them moving back isn't weird.
- scurvy 10y ago
  Also, Thursday night football is trash. The matchups are bad and everyone hates the short week.
icebraining 10y ago
The jingoism in the US is always surprising. Why is the anthem even playing in a national game? Why should the players even be forced into this display of subservience before doing their job? It's not like they're representing the national team! What a weird society.
- b2600 10y ago
  It's simply tradition. I've been to a couple of sports events in the U.S. and it doesn't seem overtly nationalistic or jingoistic.
  - scurvy 10y ago
    God Save America in the 7th inning stretch post 9/11 couldn't get more jingoistic.
- carsongross 10y ago
  It is weird. I think it is in part because America is the first enlightenment nation. We have no blood or deep history binding us together, so superficial and melodramatic shows of solidarity become much more important in generating a stable sense social identity. Think of it as a bunch of deracinated individuals attempting to say "see, 'we' are a 'we'!" The puritans were virtue-signallers par excellance, so that probably also flows through to what you see today.
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    What do you mean by "first enlightenment nation"? I haven't heard this before. I thought the ideas of the enlightenment were first in various European countries but I don't think that's what you mean?
    - b2600 10y ago
      Built on the foundations of the enlightenment? Without the historical baggage of Europe? Monarchies, feudalism, etc.
mozumder 10y ago
Literally no one cares about the anthem protests. They don't even show them during the games. The big problem is that a lot of star players were injured at the beginning of the season - Brady, Romo, Dez Bryant, JJ Watt, RG III, Adrian Peterson, etc. Just so many injuries this year. And we have millennials doing a lot more online games, so we have that competition now.
- jghn 10y ago
  Brady was suspended, not injured. But your point is still valid.
  - mozumder 10y ago
    Yes. All the suspensions/injuries/retirement (Peyton) aren't helping ratings. The audience wants their stars.
    - jghn 10y ago
      I knew I was missing one when I was thinking about this, and that was Peyton. Thanks
- PKop 10y ago
  That's not what the polls say. Here's one: https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/poll-main-reason-for-nfl-ratings-drop-due-to-players-kneeling-during-anthem/amp/?client=safari https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/poll-m... But yea, I'm sure it's seems like it wouldn't matter.... to people still watching.
  - mozumder 10y ago
    You can ignore that poll, since it doesn't account for likely viewers that turned away from watching.

carsongross 10y ago

Perhaps. However, there is evidence that the anthem protests are the leading cause of the sharp NFL viewership decline: http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2016/10/05/confirmed-nfl-losing-millions-of-tv-viewers-because-of-national-anthem-protests/#3e9e1e1974b7 http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2016/10/05/confirmed... The NFL product hasn't changed that dramatically this season, and last season was an all-time record. That's not to say that the product itself isn't contributing to the decline, or to dismiss demographic shifts mentioned in a sibling comment, but rather to note that dismissing the ongoing culture-war element out of hand is foolish.

b2600 10y ago
That article and the poll it was based on are hardly reliable. The author had previously written this as speculation (he references this in the article) and that poll is viewed with skepticism by the linked article. Rasmussen has a built in sample bias and that's being generous. NFL has contradicted these assertions [1]. [1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/nfl-executives-blame-confluence-of-events-for-ratings-declines-1475853435 http://www.wsj.com/articles/nfl-executives-blame-confluence-...
swang 10y ago
the poll that your article cites from another article. and like that article says, (which maybe is why didn't you just link the original article) Rasmussen's polls lean conservative. there is definitely some people not watching because of the protests, but there are people who are just tired of goodell and the dumb crap he pulls. did you hit your wife? 1 game unless the public starts getting more angry about it. smoke weed? 6 game suspension. no no, make that 8 games. or drop 20 spots in the draft. celebrate on a touchdown? flag and a $20k fine later. deflating some footballs in which your team was already punished for doing so but you destroyed your cell phone and now you're making me look dumb? 4 games. all of this and the huge cte stuff the nfl wishes would go away has turned me off to watching any kind of football at all. so... maybe the protests? i bet a large majority of those polled still watch the nfl anyways, even as i sometimes do despite my frustrations. i know a lot of fans who don't give a shit about any of the above. they just want their team to WIN. but the fact of the matter is, the nfl product is terrible this season. it's just not very interesting at all unless you're one of the 5-1 teams

formula1 10y ago

Id like to hear more about this mismanagement. Football as a product is guided by how exciting it is and how good it is as a group event. The types of mismanagement I could imagine is high costs at events or low energy which is the result of players being disinterested, announcers being unenthusiastic or an overall dread associated to fans. I can see how mismanagement can influence it but ai wpuld love to hear of occurences

douche 10y ago
There's league mismanagement, starting with the uneven and arbitrary handling of player discipline, questionable attempts to expand the league's reach which have damaged the product on the field, like the London and Thursday night games. Legislation of any sort of entertainment or fun out of the league, such as celebration penalties, taunting penalties, fines against players for wearing non-sanctioned but legal equipment (i.e. different colored shoes, arm-sleeves, eye-black, etc), Hypocrisy about player safety concerns, concussions, domestic violence, recreational drug usage (you can be shot full of Torodol during a game, but not light a blunt in Denver or Seattle, where it is legal, during your off-time), etc. It goes on... There is also rampant team mismanagement. The best teams in the NFL are the best teams in the NFL largely because they have competent, stable front offices and coaching staffs. Hitting on a good quarterback also helps, but isn't necessarily the key, as great quarterbacks in shitty systems can't surmount that handicap by themselves. Some teams shuffle their management every other year, routinely overpay for players, leaving gaping holes in their rosters in other areas, constantly trade away valuable draft picks for over-the-hill veterans, cut players on guaranteed contracts that then count as deadwood eating up their salary cap to no benefit, and many other examples of unsound, short-term thinking. This kind of mismanagement is crippling, because a year of two of whiffing in the draft or mismanaging the salary cap can impact a team for years down the road.

JustSomeNobody 10y ago

I stopped watching a long time ago. I hate that they feel the need to make it like a live action video game with stupid sound effects and graphics that cover most of the screen. Well, that and there's really just not much actual play happening.