14 ms·

Cord cutting is a big part of this, but there is a cultural aspect in play as well: ESPN has been increasingly pushing a progressive narrative on its viewers,

• rjvir 10y ago
  They are learning the hard way the drawbacks of being uncompromising in the belief of antiracism.
• bogomipz 10y ago
  >"ESPN has been increasingly pushing a progressive narrative on its viewers, ..." Can you explain what this narrative is?
  • carsongross 10y ago
    An example: http://www.espn.com/espys/2015/story/_/id/13264599/caitlyn-jenner-accepts-arthur-ashe-courage-award-espys-ashe2015 http://www.espn.com/espys/2015/story/_/id/13264599/caitlyn-j...
  • tzakrajs 10y ago
    Players refusing to kneel for National Anthem out of protest for police violence and injustice towards minorities.
    • deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    • bluejekyll 10y ago
      They refused to stand and cover their heart (traditional respect for the flag and anthem). They chose to kneel instead to show that they are respectfully protesting, as opposed to just remaining seated and just not caring.
      • tzakrajs 10y ago
        Oops I mixed those up
    • deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
• untog 10y ago
  This confuses me a lot. What narrative is ESPN pushing? I'm pretty sure both they and the NFL would prefer players do not protest the national anthem - it's a controversy with little financial up side. But it's the players that are protesting. Is the suggestion that ESPN should be ignoring it, or refusing to broadcast it? Because that seems counterproductive for everyone involved.
  • carsongross 10y ago
    It is understandable how one might be confused when one swims in that narrative, but, as an example, things like this: http://www.espn.com/espys/2015/story/_/id/13264599/caitlyn-jenner-accepts-arthur-ashe-courage-award-espys-ashe2015 http://www.espn.com/espys/2015/story/_/id/13264599/caitlyn-j... are going to be poorly received by a number of ESPN's (previously) core demographics.
    • jomamaxx 10y ago
      Why would this comment be down-voted? Putting Jenner on the front page of your anything is going to be wildly controversial and upsetting / offensive to a good chunk of people. This just a fact not a moral statement. I'd suggest this 'social' issue may possibly be at least one of the factors in the decline, it would be difficult to prove, nevertheless, it's a perfectly reasonable speculation. Americans do protest with their wallets. It'd be nice to see some time-based data for their decline - overlaid with cable cutting trends.
    • dcosson 10y ago
      At the risk of contributing to the madness... It just baffles my mind how the right continues to insist that accepting people is a political issue, and that it is perfectly legitimate to take the for or against side on it. And all in the name of Jesus! (who spent his entire life accepting marginalized people).
      • jessaustin 10y ago
        You're right, but the point stands that this sort of coverage isn't going to make much money. Normal people are just bored by Jenner at this point. There are several dozen people still fascinated by her, but they're not ESPN's core demographic. And then there are a large number of people who find this sort of coverage so objectionable that they'll cancel service rather than change the channel. ISTM people who don't watch much sports think that NBC's Olympic coverage is typical sports coverage. Jenner would fit right into that execrable human-interest pablum, but actual sports fans who watch lots of sports can't stand it.
• scurvy 10y ago
  Dropping NFL audiences have more to with the subpar product the NFL is producing these days, than it has to do with national anthem protests. The league is shooting itself in the foot via mismanagement.
  • PKop 10y ago
    If the league agrees with you on this reasoning (I've heard it pushed a lot recently so I'm sure some do) they will fail to address the real contributing factor for many abandoning the league this year which is: the national anthem protests, and to some degree the multi season string of domestic violence amongst players and the leagues handling of theses issues. Those are the 2 reasons I and a lot of the people I talk to have stopped watching. Subpar product on field has never been discussed. The quality of play seems he same as it has any other year (from some highlights I've seen... but I haven't watched a game so I guess I wouldn't know).
    • scurvy 10y ago
      No Fun League: Why all the celebration bans? Come on. It's ridiculous. Is it a catch? This seems to change every week. No more hits: It's good for players' health, but maybe the players should change their style of play and not go up for that super high pass across the middle and show some self-preservation rather than penalizing a defender. Reviews: this can be reviewed but this cannot. Why? If the ultimate goal is to get it right, everything should be reviewable. Officiating: Tumbled to terrible quality recently. Even the league, which is loathe to criticize its officials, has admitted that officials have screwed up that changed the outcome of several games. This is historically bad. Games in far off lands: This needs to end. Now. Preseason: Stop making ticketholders buy these worthless games. Should be 2 preseason games. NFL doesn't make the networks carry preseason games, why should season ticketholders foot the bill? Teams moving around for money: Talk about fan alienation.
      • caltelt 10y ago
        Teams moving around for money: I couldn't agree more. I was recently living in STL and this left a really bad taste in my mouth, and I'm a Packer fan who will never have to worry about this. It really pulls to the forefront that these teams are purely profit-driven, which in professional sports is a given, but gives the appearance of excessive greed. In some ways it's the antithesis of all of those feel-good sports movies where they play through adversity to overcome. I'd be interested in knowing how these sorts of stunts play out in a more macro sense. As a whole, it may be a net profit for the NFL, but I wonder if it's more of a medium-term win.
• chiefalchemist 10y ago
  The cultural aspect is not political. It's interests. Soccer is growing. Lacrosse is growing. Etc. ESPN appeals to a very traditional sports mind. And those type are less and less, especially among the younger demographics.
  • carsongross 10y ago
    Demographic and generational shifts are clearly part of it as well, but the numbers are quite sudden which indicate a more immediate cause, in my opinion. I think it is foolish to dismiss any one particular contributing factor, particularly for ideological reasons. Reality is more interesting when one is able, as best one can, to set aside ones own ideology when observing.
    • Retra 10y ago
      I'm not sure why you'd expect an organization like ESPN to modulate their content in sync with generational shifts. Most organizations try to put off such shifts until the transformation must obviously occur and then rapidly play 'catch up' while trying to innovate for the audience they're chasing. If ESPN is able slowly and accurately follow along with cultural shifts, then they've got some exceptionally brilliant people driving there.
• PKop 10y ago
  You'll get plenty of people to disagree with this opinion (even the networks / NFL themselves: see all the different reasons they come with for ratings decline). But this is exactly why I and many of my family and friends have: 1) stopped watching the NFL this year and 2) stopped watching ESPN years ago Another contribution to decline of NFL is the scandals involving domestic abuse. All of these factors come together to alienate the audience, who is increasingly at odds culturally with the message being pushed by ESPN and the like.
• tmat 10y ago
  i quit watching because of the enormous amount of commercials and bullshit.. it shouldn't take 4-5hrs for a football game.. kickoff commercial, flag, commerical, touchdown commercial, kickoff commercial.. blech. and i played all my life into college and love the game, but i refuse to watch.
  • EpicEng 10y ago
    Football games are universally 3-3.25 hours long (omitting overtime games.) They keep to the same schedule each week. Do you even watch football?
    • jhatax 10y ago
      This is the crux of why viewership is declining. Who in their right mind these days has 3+ hours to watch a game that has only an hour of play time. And realistically speaking, the average "actual" play time is sub-15 minutes [1]. Just because this has been the case, doesn't make it the template for the future. The league knows it has a problem but inertia, greed and a clueless front office are impediments to change. Let's call it like it is: The league has become greedier with every passing year. And please don't believe the hype: They don't care for the players health and safety either, despite the rule changes [2]. Having been in the stands at a number of games, it's obvious that the players want to go and dislike the commercial breaks because it breaks their flow. To summarize, players aren't happy, fans aren't happy; no surprise then that ratings are falling. The path forward is to rein in game time (2-2.5 hours a game) and make more games available on interactive, online platforms like Twitter. Additionally, it is time that the league revise their monetization strategy for game broadcasts. What works for soccer might not work for the NFL given that a season is 16-weeks, but what's in place today isn't future-friendly. The league needs to evolve with the changing milieu or perish. Fortunately for a fan of the game like me, the league has shown that it can change its spots. 1. https://www.google.com/search?q=average+actual+play+time+NFL&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari https://www.google.com/search?q=average+actual+play+time+NFL... 2. http://www.theplayerstribune.com/richard-sherman-nfl-player-relationship-pov-video/ http://www.theplayerstribune.com/richard-sherman-nfl-player-...
    • 10y ago
• brown9-2 10y ago
  This argument sounds a lot less sophisticated when the only further elaboration provided is "they gave an award to Caitlyn Jenner at an award show".
• jghn 10y ago
  I heard on a podcast the other day that English football is also seeing a dip in ratings. I don't know if that is actually true but if so it puts some perspective on the hand wringing about why the NFL and other USA sports are declining in popularity. If it is more of a universal trend to me that implies something beyond issues such as politics, concussions and domestic violence.
  • kodablah 10y ago
    It is true, but that both are losing viewers doesn't mean they both are for the same reasons.
    • jghn 10y ago
      True but if there's a general trend towards decline in viewership might sense would be to explore shared reasons prior to trying to think too deeply about other causes.
  • JBlue42 10y ago
    On /r/soccer there was a post at the top from The Guardian. It seems that it's more based on the ability to stream: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/59n8gf/even_my_78yearold_father_streams_when_we_learned/ https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/59n8gf/even_my_78ye... And to add to the general discussion about ESPN, streaming, and the like: I'm internet-only with TWC (now Spectrum, as I'm constantly reminded) but even if I had a tv subscription I still wouldn't have been able to watch the EPL on NBC Sports streaming site since they're Comcast-owned.
• narrowrail 10y ago
  >ESPN has been increasingly pushing a progressive narrative on its viewers, This is certainly the narrative I've heard Limbaugh advance of late, but this[0] NPR post has stats that my offer another explanation: "The Wall Street Journal reports the prime-time audience of adults under 50 for the top four broadcast networks, which schedule dramas, comedies, and so-called reality shows in that slot, is down 9.2 percent from last year's fall TV season." "But the cable news networks...up 39 percent in a three-week span this fall from the same time period during the last presidential election." "Movie attendance since Labor Day is down 16 percent" [0]http://www.npr.org/2016/10/29/499801719/stop-lying-america-you-love-election-2016 http://www.npr.org/2016/10/29/499801719/stop-lying-america-y...
  • pyoung 10y ago
    I think the election is the most plausible explanation. Modern American politics has turned into it's own sport, with the debates, commentary, polling, and predictive modeling, following a modern election these days feel eerily similar to following your favorite sports team (but with much higher stakes).
• golemotron 10y ago
  There's the progressive narrative but there's also something even more insidious. Sports talk used to be about strategy and talent. Now it's about scandal, drama, and human interest. Trying to get more viewers they've turned to soap opera and reality TV territory, much like 24 hour news outlets have. Trying to get more sometimes gets you less.
  • tdkl 10y ago
    >Sports talk used to be about strategy and talent. Now it's about scandal, drama, and human interest. All those degrees in liberal arts colleges that manufacture PC followers did its job. I'd also connect the increasing modern feminisation of the western males to it and removing the competition in schools - participation prizes and such. What used to be healthy values you stated are now condemned if not demonised for being majorly male.
• reflexive 10y ago
  Top example: Jessica Mendoza is beyond doubt the worst professional baseball announcer I've ever heard. Yet fans are forced to listen to her on every high-profile Sunday night game. ESPN transparently wants to position themselves as "progressive" and "history-making" by placing a female in a traditionally male role, at the expense of product. I can go on about why I find her style of commentary so grating, but suffice it to say I've switched to listening to radio for Sunday night games.
  • jhatax 10y ago
    Sunday Night Football is broadcast by NBC not ESPN. Just saying.
    • thesmallestcat 10y ago
      Baseball.
• M_Grey 10y ago
  It's just cord-cutting and the fact that their actual product has been going downhill for the better part of a decade. Try to impose an alt-right perspective on this all you like, it's not going to work.
• DominikR 10y ago
  I believe you are correct here. The same has happened to CNN, MSNBC and other cable channels during the elections while the viewership of FOX is now larger than CNN and MSNBC combined. What is particularly interesting is that Hannity is now beating everyone else in ratings and he is probably the most unapologetic Trump supporter. Seems like people punish media that is pushing HRC.
  • mwfunk 10y ago
    Hannity's an entertainer, not an analyst. The ratings are from the political entertainment industry feeding off of people's darkest fears and pumping them full of imaginary outrage so they can feed off of them some more. It's not pretty, and is actually pretty shameful and embarrassing for our country that this is what we've sunken to as a nation.
    • DominikR 10y ago
      Everyone who wants to be on TV has to be an entertainer, otherwise he/she has no business being on television and should instead write papers and books. The rest is just your opinion, which you are obviously entitled to. I happen to disagree and I think most would too, otherwise he wouldn't have that kind of viewership.
• matchagaucho 10y ago
  Great observations, and likely true at some deeper level. But I suspect the gossip headlines of "What color underwear is the QB wearing today?", are mostly to blame for the ESPN attrition.
• hackuser 10y ago
  > progressive It's not progressive, it's mainstream, the social norm. The racist right is a small segment of the population.
  • douche 10y ago
    No, it's really not. Especially in big football-watching markets.
    • deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    • hackuser 10y ago
      The alt-right wants to insist they are the norm, but it's not true. Americans elected a black President, interracial marriage is increasing dramatically as are other black elected officials, and racism by a political candidate is a career-ending mistake. The big football markets are major cities, such as New York, which are even more liberal and ethnically diverse than the rest of the country.
      • douche 10y ago
        I dunno, there seems to be a pretty big reaction to the progressive official story going on in this election, and those people are coming from somewhere. Considering the SEC is the biggest football conference in the country, and it's based out of Texas and the deep South, which rather reactionary regions. There is far more to the USA than the major coastal cities, and if you go out into the hinterlands, you'll quickly find that there's a goodly number of people that aren't as progressive as some would like.