5 ms·

It just impacts ESPN the most because ESPN costs every cable and satellite subscriber roughly $7 a month, over triple the next most expensive cable channel. Ye

It just impacts ESPN the most because ESPN costs every cable and satellite subscriber roughly $7 a month, over triple the next most expensive cable channel. Yep, if you have a cable or satellite subscription, whether you watch ESPN or not, you're paying ESPN over $80 a year. At some point, the decline will be enough to kill these deals.

byuu 10y ago
> Yep, if you have a cable or satellite subscription, whether you watch ESPN or not, you're paying ESPN over $80 a year. And that right there is one of the main reasons why I don't have a cable or satellite subscription anymore. Very tired of subsidizing channels I never watched. Most especially ESPN. That and the trend of, "oh you want AMC? Well you'd better buy the super premium $140 a month 200+ channel package! You can't get it with just the $80 a month 120 channel package." And, of course, the ads. My money or advertisements: pick one.
- hxegon 10y ago
  The amount of ads on television is mind boggling. If I want to watch a 30 minute show, I don't want it to be an hour long event filled with ads for prescription medication when I already pay money to watch the show.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    Why don't you get a DVR? I just start watching it a bit later and skip the ads.
- rjvir 10y ago
  Bundles are often great deals for consumers. The TV bundle is the result of decades of scale, iteration, and the free market. TV has a lot of weaknesses, but I don't think its bundle economics are one of them. The most successful alternatives to TV are also bundles, and the bundling is a critical part of their success. Imagine instead of paying $10/month for Netflix, you had to pay for each show a la carte (like iTunes). That would be worse for consumers - and creators.
  - ethbro 10y ago
    Curious about bundles being an example of the free market at work. How are consumers able to vote with their dollars what channels bundles do and do not include?
    - matco11 10y ago
      Well, the answer really is in your question: consumers do vote with their dollars. Except sport and other tv rights are an oligopolistic market (not a free competitive market): this allows cable companies to select bundles not in a way to minimize the cost to the consumer (which would result in you finding the perfect bundle for what you want to watch at the cheapest price), instead they can create bundles to maximize profit for themselves (which results in you having to pay for several bundles in order to get all the content you want).
  - Retric 10y ago
    There is nothing free market about Cable TV. Free markets needs Substitute goods aka BMW vs Audi not ESPN vs Syfy or other matchups where a and b have different consumers. Remember copyright creates monopolies and monopolies are not free markets.
    - zerocrates 10y ago
      Pretty much no market in existence is completely "free," but this is a pretty limited view of things. Is there nothing free about the market for software because only Adobe can sell Photoshop? Presumably then there are also no free markets for, well, any type of cultural product. In a sense that's true and Disney is the only game in town for Rogue One, but I'm not sure it's a terribly useful analytical framework. "Monopolies are not free markets" is also an interesting claim on its own.
      - Retric 10y ago
        Ehh, the idea that Monopolies are not free markets, is a fairly well understood separation. "A free market is a system in which the prices for goods and services are determined by the open market and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market The idea is Monopolies can extract "Monopoly Rent/Economic Rent" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_rent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_rent at a higher price than normal because competitors don't enter the market and lower prices.
- tomjen3 10y ago
  Here in Denmark most of the companies have finally unbundled their channels, so you don't have to buy a bundle. When my ISP did it, I called them up and canceled the TV portion entirely: who wants to sit there and watch a particular show at a particular time?
- Touche 10y ago
  If you only want to pay for what you like you can pretty much already do that on Apple TV or Amazon Video. A channel is just a curated selection of content no different than a bundle is a curated selection of channels. Just because you like one program on a channel doesn't mean you like any of its others.
- digler999 10y ago
  I'm considering getting an HDMI capture card, and buying the super-premium package with at least 2 "rooms" (I live alone). Then, connect the capture card to MythTV (or whatever the app is called these days) to rip the shows to a NAS. Put the NAS on a VPN with 3 or more of my friends. Then share the subscription cost. That $140/mo package is now $35/mo, which is actually worth paying for (if you have all the movie channels, etc). Plus if you spend that much on TV they often bundle your internet right in.
  - jrockway 10y ago
    Doesn't HDCP close that loophole? HDMI capture cards are for things like recording the HDMI output of your DSLR for livestreaming (or a really high quality webcam, I guess). Of course, the HDCP master key is leaked, but I'm not sure you can reliably buy something that reliably includes one (random batches of "HDMI repeaters" on Amazon seem to strip HDCP, but it's hit-or-miss because it's like totally omg super illegal; better to get the criminality out of your system with murder or arson.)
    - digler999 10y ago
      I haven't tried it yet, but supposedly there are HDMI splitters that "accidentally" remove HDCP. http://www.tweaking4all.com/home-theatre/remove-hdcp-hdmi-signal/ http://www.tweaking4all.com/home-theatre/remove-hdcp-hdmi-si... the main thing keeping me from doing this is that there are just too many moving parts for it to be a stable replacement for a cable box.
  - Fej 10y ago
    It's still copyright infringement so you might as well just torrent the shows.
    - digler999 10y ago
      The product is still being paid for, so I dont agree that its infringing. I'm just "bundling" my subscription with 2 or 3 of my friends. You know, like they "bundle" different tiers of programming. Torrenting can't really handle sports. This solution might allow me to "rebroadcast" a live game straight out of my apartment.
beedogs 10y ago
It'll probably happen by 2020, at the rate they're shedding customers. Their contract with the NFL will be up in 2021; does anyone really think the NFL will ask for less money for Monday Night Football?
- __derek__ 10y ago
  To invoke the old truism: something is only worth what somebody's willing to pay for it. Maybe broadcast networks will be able/willing to pony up the dough to get those rights back, but I wouldn't bet on it.

byuu 10y ago

> Yep, if you have a cable or satellite subscription, whether you watch ESPN or not, you're paying ESPN over $80 a year. And that right there is one of the main reasons why I don't have a cable or satellite subscription anymore. Very tired of subsidizing channels I never watched. Most especially ESPN. That and the trend of, "oh you want AMC? Well you'd better buy the super premium $140 a month 200+ channel package! You can't get it with just the $80 a month 120 channel package." And, of course, the ads. My money or advertisements: pick one.

hxegon 10y ago
The amount of ads on television is mind boggling. If I want to watch a 30 minute show, I don't want it to be an hour long event filled with ads for prescription medication when I already pay money to watch the show.
- icebraining 10y ago
  Why don't you get a DVR? I just start watching it a bit later and skip the ads.
rjvir 10y ago
Bundles are often great deals for consumers. The TV bundle is the result of decades of scale, iteration, and the free market. TV has a lot of weaknesses, but I don't think its bundle economics are one of them. The most successful alternatives to TV are also bundles, and the bundling is a critical part of their success. Imagine instead of paying $10/month for Netflix, you had to pay for each show a la carte (like iTunes). That would be worse for consumers - and creators.
- ethbro 10y ago
  Curious about bundles being an example of the free market at work. How are consumers able to vote with their dollars what channels bundles do and do not include?
  - matco11 10y ago
    Well, the answer really is in your question: consumers do vote with their dollars. Except sport and other tv rights are an oligopolistic market (not a free competitive market): this allows cable companies to select bundles not in a way to minimize the cost to the consumer (which would result in you finding the perfect bundle for what you want to watch at the cheapest price), instead they can create bundles to maximize profit for themselves (which results in you having to pay for several bundles in order to get all the content you want).
- Retric 10y ago
  There is nothing free market about Cable TV. Free markets needs Substitute goods aka BMW vs Audi not ESPN vs Syfy or other matchups where a and b have different consumers. Remember copyright creates monopolies and monopolies are not free markets.
  - zerocrates 10y ago
    Pretty much no market in existence is completely "free," but this is a pretty limited view of things. Is there nothing free about the market for software because only Adobe can sell Photoshop? Presumably then there are also no free markets for, well, any type of cultural product. In a sense that's true and Disney is the only game in town for Rogue One, but I'm not sure it's a terribly useful analytical framework. "Monopolies are not free markets" is also an interesting claim on its own.
    - Retric 10y ago
      Ehh, the idea that Monopolies are not free markets, is a fairly well understood separation. "A free market is a system in which the prices for goods and services are determined by the open market and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market The idea is Monopolies can extract "Monopoly Rent/Economic Rent" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_rent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_rent at a higher price than normal because competitors don't enter the market and lower prices.
tomjen3 10y ago
Here in Denmark most of the companies have finally unbundled their channels, so you don't have to buy a bundle. When my ISP did it, I called them up and canceled the TV portion entirely: who wants to sit there and watch a particular show at a particular time?
Touche 10y ago
If you only want to pay for what you like you can pretty much already do that on Apple TV or Amazon Video. A channel is just a curated selection of content no different than a bundle is a curated selection of channels. Just because you like one program on a channel doesn't mean you like any of its others.
digler999 10y ago
I'm considering getting an HDMI capture card, and buying the super-premium package with at least 2 "rooms" (I live alone). Then, connect the capture card to MythTV (or whatever the app is called these days) to rip the shows to a NAS. Put the NAS on a VPN with 3 or more of my friends. Then share the subscription cost. That $140/mo package is now $35/mo, which is actually worth paying for (if you have all the movie channels, etc). Plus if you spend that much on TV they often bundle your internet right in.
- jrockway 10y ago
  Doesn't HDCP close that loophole? HDMI capture cards are for things like recording the HDMI output of your DSLR for livestreaming (or a really high quality webcam, I guess). Of course, the HDCP master key is leaked, but I'm not sure you can reliably buy something that reliably includes one (random batches of "HDMI repeaters" on Amazon seem to strip HDCP, but it's hit-or-miss because it's like totally omg super illegal; better to get the criminality out of your system with murder or arson.)
  - digler999 10y ago
    I haven't tried it yet, but supposedly there are HDMI splitters that "accidentally" remove HDCP. http://www.tweaking4all.com/home-theatre/remove-hdcp-hdmi-signal/ http://www.tweaking4all.com/home-theatre/remove-hdcp-hdmi-si... the main thing keeping me from doing this is that there are just too many moving parts for it to be a stable replacement for a cable box.
- Fej 10y ago
  It's still copyright infringement so you might as well just torrent the shows.
  - digler999 10y ago
    The product is still being paid for, so I dont agree that its infringing. I'm just "bundling" my subscription with 2 or 3 of my friends. You know, like they "bundle" different tiers of programming. Torrenting can't really handle sports. This solution might allow me to "rebroadcast" a live game straight out of my apartment.

beedogs 10y ago

It'll probably happen by 2020, at the rate they're shedding customers. Their contract with the NFL will be up in 2021; does anyone really think the NFL will ask for less money for Monday Night Football?

__derek__ 10y ago
To invoke the old truism: something is only worth what somebody's willing to pay for it. Maybe broadcast networks will be able/willing to pony up the dough to get those rights back, but I wouldn't bet on it.