3 ms·

His argument about the solar roof starts by equating the situation to how Tesla started out - electric cars were slow and ugly and needed to be sexy and cool to

by andreyk 10y ago

His argument about the solar roof starts by equating the situation to how Tesla started out - electric cars were slow and ugly and needed to be sexy and cool to be attractive, and the same is true for solar. Except I highly doubt this is true here - do people really mind the look of typical roof-mount solar? My impression is that the upfront cost is just too high and cost recoup is just too slow. The argument for the solar roof is then 'using a solar roof in the first place = way cheaper than installing on top of existing roofs (and also it looks as good and works better)'. Maybe? I'd like to see the quantitative argument here. Having a house pre-built with a fancy solar roof AND a powerpack seems like it would still be pretty much for rich people. Still, maybe the aim is for a similar trajectory as Tesla - start with a product for rich people, make it attractive, lower cost so everyone can have it and WANTS to have it. Unrelated: gosh, I like the content of the video presentation but it would be nice if Musk was a slightly better presenter.

nixarn 10y ago
Every time Elon presents something we have this coversation. I for one love listening to him talk compared to say the presenters at Apple and Microsofts recent event. He's genuine, doesn't feel like a salesman, talks about the reasoning and science behind it all in a great way.
- davidivadavid 10y ago
  The content of his presentation is always interesting. The delivery is always incredibly awkward and cringy.
  - nixarn 10y ago
    I dont agree. Not cringy and awkward, but human and real. Who cares if he stutters and doesn't bring a polished salespitch. And he's nerdy for sure, but why have it any other way. Also the few jokes thay occur are typically funny as they are genuine and not silly jokes practiced before hand like Apple seems to like.
    - davidivadavid 10y ago
      That sounds like a false dichotomy. Recent Apple keynotes are more polished, but the content is often cringy too (that whole "courage" thing will go down as one of the most ridiculous things ever said in an Apple keynote). Not a good counter example. But Louis CK sounds human and real and he can deliver something without stuttering, bad comic timing, and awkward pauses. You might say it's his job — but that's the point. It's a job. It takes skill. Musk is just not a good public speaker, that's all. I don't think even he would disagree with that.
makomk 10y ago
The reason that solar roofs aren't common is that they're more expensive than rooftop solar. As I understand it, Tesla/SolarCity's argument isn't that they're cheaper than normal solar, it's that they're the same cost as normal re-roofing once you take into account the income from the solar. From the ArsTechnica article: 'In a private conversation with journalists after the announcement, Musk declined to state a price for the roof or a price-per-square foot. He did admit "it's not gonna make sense for somebody to replace a brand new roof with a solar roof." But if your roof needs replacing anyway, he said, the cost/benefit could make sense for many families.' More specifically, since SolarCity's business model is that they own the solar panels and you're committed to buying electricity produced by them for their lifespan, his argument is that it costs no more than conventional re-roofing + conventional electricity. There is of course the slight downside of you no longer owning the roof over your head, and having to commit to electricity purchases for the next decade or so.
anantzoid 10y ago
> Unrelated: gosh, I like the content of the video presentation but it would be nice if Musk was a slightly better presenter. Same goes for the audience. I heard one shouting "Save us Elon!". Where do they get these people from?
will_hughes 10y ago
> do people really mind the look of typical roof-mount solar Depends on the people you're asking. Some Home-Owners-Associations in the US forbid the installation of rooftop solar on visual grounds. Though some states have signed laws stopping HOAs from doing this.
mattmcknight 10y ago
One problem with solar traditional roof mounts is that they are heavy, and many houses aren't rated to carry that much additional weight. In addition, they can affect the water flow on the roof, and then when you need to replace the shingles, you've got all of these panels in the way. However, some people do think some solar panel installs are ugly: http://www.greensunnj.com/SolarHallofShame http://www.greensunnj.com/SolarHallofShame
ghaff 10y ago
>do people really mind the look of typical roof-mount solar It depends on the person and it depends on the house design. IMO, some roof-top solar installations look pretty ugly. To your cost point, yeah, it's still hard to look at a lot of solar as something that works financially today for most people even with the price drops--if having an off-the-grid backup doesn't have a lot of value. As various people here are quoting, $1K/year covers electricity use for a lot of people. Even if you double that to account for higher usage or price increases, it's hard to square that with a $20K or solar/battery installation even if you ignore maintenance and depreciation.

by andreyk 10y ago

nixarn 10y ago

Every time Elon presents something we have this coversation. I for one love listening to him talk compared to say the presenters at Apple and Microsofts recent event. He's genuine, doesn't feel like a salesman, talks about the reasoning and science behind it all in a great way.

davidivadavid 10y ago
The content of his presentation is always interesting. The delivery is always incredibly awkward and cringy.
- nixarn 10y ago
  I dont agree. Not cringy and awkward, but human and real. Who cares if he stutters and doesn't bring a polished salespitch. And he's nerdy for sure, but why have it any other way. Also the few jokes thay occur are typically funny as they are genuine and not silly jokes practiced before hand like Apple seems to like.
  - davidivadavid 10y ago
    That sounds like a false dichotomy. Recent Apple keynotes are more polished, but the content is often cringy too (that whole "courage" thing will go down as one of the most ridiculous things ever said in an Apple keynote). Not a good counter example. But Louis CK sounds human and real and he can deliver something without stuttering, bad comic timing, and awkward pauses. You might say it's his job — but that's the point. It's a job. It takes skill. Musk is just not a good public speaker, that's all. I don't think even he would disagree with that.

makomk 10y ago

The reason that solar roofs aren't common is that they're more expensive than rooftop solar. As I understand it, Tesla/SolarCity's argument isn't that they're cheaper than normal solar, it's that they're the same cost as normal re-roofing once you take into account the income from the solar. From the ArsTechnica article: 'In a private conversation with journalists after the announcement, Musk declined to state a price for the roof or a price-per-square foot. He did admit "it's not gonna make sense for somebody to replace a brand new roof with a solar roof." But if your roof needs replacing anyway, he said, the cost/benefit could make sense for many families.' More specifically, since SolarCity's business model is that they own the solar panels and you're committed to buying electricity produced by them for their lifespan, his argument is that it costs no more than conventional re-roofing + conventional electricity. There is of course the slight downside of you no longer owning the roof over your head, and having to commit to electricity purchases for the next decade or so.

anantzoid 10y ago

> Unrelated: gosh, I like the content of the video presentation but it would be nice if Musk was a slightly better presenter. Same goes for the audience. I heard one shouting "Save us Elon!". Where do they get these people from?

will_hughes 10y ago

> do people really mind the look of typical roof-mount solar Depends on the people you're asking. Some Home-Owners-Associations in the US forbid the installation of rooftop solar on visual grounds. Though some states have signed laws stopping HOAs from doing this.

mattmcknight 10y ago

One problem with solar traditional roof mounts is that they are heavy, and many houses aren't rated to carry that much additional weight. In addition, they can affect the water flow on the roof, and then when you need to replace the shingles, you've got all of these panels in the way. However, some people do think some solar panel installs are ugly: http://www.greensunnj.com/SolarHallofShame http://www.greensunnj.com/SolarHallofShame

ghaff 10y ago

>do people really mind the look of typical roof-mount solar It depends on the person and it depends on the house design. IMO, some roof-top solar installations look pretty ugly. To your cost point, yeah, it's still hard to look at a lot of solar as something that works financially today for most people even with the price drops--if having an off-the-grid backup doesn't have a lot of value. As various people here are quoting, $1K/year covers electricity use for a lot of people. Even if you double that to account for higher usage or price increases, it's hard to square that with a $20K or solar/battery installation even if you ignore maintenance and depreciation.