3 ms·

Since when are the citizens property of the state?

by Rod 16y ago

Sukotto 16y ago
I never claimed that they are. From the upvotes on your comment and the downvotes on mine it's clear that you're not the only one who mistakenly thinks I did.
- Rod 16y ago
  Pledging allegiance to the flag of the United States is more of a ritual than anything else. Unless you're in the Military, it means very little. If a U.S. citizen can't break the umbilical cord with Uncle Sam, then he's not free at all. The so-called Land of the Free has been converging to Authoritarianism for a while. It's really quite worrying that the few people brave enough to break-away are labeled as traitors.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  If that oath is so 'binding' on first saying how come people are asked to repeat it all the time? Oaths to flags and countries are pretty meaningless, unless taken by an adult that has a viable option to pledge allegiance to some other entity (say in immigrant). What if every country should ask for a pledge of allegiance from its citizens, would that mean that any immigrants are to be refused on the grounds that they're oath breakers? If the Netherlands (where I was born) would ask me to pledge allegiance I'd hand in my passport instantly because I think that is not something a country should ask of its citizens. Especially not a country that has 'freedom' high in it's list of standards. It's more of a symbolic device than a pledge that you can hold people to or call them an oathbreaker if they don't. Most kids don't even realize the meaning of all those words, just say them to avoid being an outsider. Get them while they're young...
  - ahoyhere 16y ago
    As a rule, Americans have no idea how much they are indoctrinated. I tell my European friends about how I know 3 different songs about the flag, and 3-5 additional songs about how awesome America is, and were made to sing them in school, and they are aghast. When I tell them about the mandatory daily Pledge of Allegiance, and that book by Avi about the "rogue" kid who refuses to say it (based on true stories), they about shit their pants. Then I tell them about Cuba, and they die. Land of the Free, my ass!

Since when are the citizens property of the state?

by Rod 16y ago

Since when are the citizens property of the state?

I never claimed that they are. From the upvotes on your comment and the downvotes on mine it's clear that you're not the only one who mistakenly thinks I did.

Rod 16y ago
Pledging allegiance to the flag of the United States is more of a ritual than anything else. Unless you're in the Military, it means very little. If a U.S. citizen can't break the umbilical cord with Uncle Sam, then he's not free at all. The so-called Land of the Free has been converging to Authoritarianism for a while. It's really quite worrying that the few people brave enough to break-away are labeled as traitors.
jacquesm 16y ago
If that oath is so 'binding' on first saying how come people are asked to repeat it all the time? Oaths to flags and countries are pretty meaningless, unless taken by an adult that has a viable option to pledge allegiance to some other entity (say in immigrant). What if every country should ask for a pledge of allegiance from its citizens, would that mean that any immigrants are to be refused on the grounds that they're oath breakers? If the Netherlands (where I was born) would ask me to pledge allegiance I'd hand in my passport instantly because I think that is not something a country should ask of its citizens. Especially not a country that has 'freedom' high in it's list of standards. It's more of a symbolic device than a pledge that you can hold people to or call them an oathbreaker if they don't. Most kids don't even realize the meaning of all those words, just say them to avoid being an outsider. Get them while they're young...
- ahoyhere 16y ago
  As a rule, Americans have no idea how much they are indoctrinated. I tell my European friends about how I know 3 different songs about the flag, and 3-5 additional songs about how awesome America is, and were made to sing them in school, and they are aghast. When I tell them about the mandatory daily Pledge of Allegiance, and that book by Avi about the "rogue" kid who refuses to say it (based on true stories), they about shit their pants. Then I tell them about Cuba, and they die. Land of the Free, my ass!