9 ms·

Since Lenovo preinstalled spyware/malware they can no longer be trusted.

by Apreche 10y ago

kyriakos 10y ago
the problem with this argument is that any manufacturer can be preinstalling spyware in the future and you won't know until it becomes public. Lenovo did but apparently stopped after it got caught. My point is that all OEM's are on the same boat.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- fatbird 10y ago
  There's still a pretty big difference between "did install spyware" and "could install spyware". Everyone is a potential criminal; I'm still going to exercise more caution around convicted felons.
- sliken 10y ago
  Lenovo seems pretty unique and adding ugly hacks to their hardware (like disabling ACHI), and then changing the PCI ID of a "fake raid" chip. So not only does this break linux, but it also breaks the standard release of windows. So even if you want to install MS Windows from official microsoft media, you can't. Why would lenovo would disable AHCI (which breaks windows and linux), then mess with a fake RAID (despite having a single storage device). Seems like Lenovo REALLY doesn't want consumers reinstalling the OS.... makes one wonder.
  - cheiVia0 10y ago
    Wasn't it concluded that it was to reduce power usage, and it was Intel that didn't provide a Linux driver? Edit: http://lwn.net/Articles/701635/ http://lwn.net/Articles/701635/
ThatGeoGuy 10y ago
I can sort of understand this sentiment, which is why I would instead encourage people to support https://minifree.org https://minifree.org. Same hardware, but you know the software is under your control. Want everything Lenovo laptops have to offer, but with software you the user can read and control? I don't have one myself, but I've heard good things, and X200s are not so old as to be unusable, especially with Linux.
- eatbitseveryday 10y ago
  >> Since Lenovo preinstalled spyware/malware they can no longer be trusted. > support https://minifree.org https://minifree.org. Same hardware, but you know the software is under your control. Maybe this is purely my own sentiment, but the manufacturer can install whatever it wants, so long as it's just on the disk. I buy the laptop for the hardware, not the software. If their behavior in doing this implicates them doing worse things, such as malware on device firmware or in the BIOS, or system management mode code, then one would be right to avoid this.
  - swissoak 10y ago
    Exactly that happened on Lenovo laptops. There was BIOS level code that re-installed malware/spyware on your laptop even if you formatted and reinstalled from scratch or used an entirely new hard drive.
rhizome 10y ago
They didn't do that on Thinkpads, though.
- criddell 10y ago
  It's the same company though. I have two Thinkpads (I'm typing on a T520 right now) and today I wouldn't buy another. Even if you want to give them a pass for unethical behavior, Lenovo still installs a lot of extra software that you don't really need. If you do buy a Thinkpad, I recommend reformatting the machine and doing a stock Windows install.
  - bchociej 10y ago
    Why not Linux?
    - criddell 10y ago
      Worse battery life. Really though, the applications you need should dictate the OS you use. If Linux works for you, by all means, use it.
      - ymse 10y ago
        I didn't downvote you, but even my Macbook friends were jealous of my 20+ hours on a Thinkpad x250 (9-cell). The default power settings on Linux are pretty bad, though. Anyone with Linux on their laptop should create a boot service that runs this command: powertop --auto-tune ...and observe battery time increase by ~25%.
  - syshum 10y ago
    >>>If you do buy a Thinkpad, I recommend reformatting the machine and doing a stock Windows install. that should be done with all computers no matter who you buy it from
  - mst 10y ago
    Personally, I've found the Thinkpad windows build to work better for me by far than a vanilla one (especially the projector stuff, which generally makes me a very happy bunny at conferences). However, given there's a recovery partition and you don't wipe it while doing a stock install, "try both and see which you prefer" is clearly an option.
syshum 10y ago
Yes because Lenovo is the only major vendor to install spyware, break ssl, or any other things. Dell has never done that... ohh wait https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/superfish-20-now-dell-breaking-https https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/superfish-20-now-dell-...
- twiceaday 10y ago
  Then add Dell to the list as well. What is your point?
  - syshum 10y ago
    If I look deep enough I can find where every manufacturer has done this... that is my point. Dont use OEM Images, or better yet dont use Windows... that is my point
- yuhong 10y ago
  The Dell case at least was a honest mistake. Superfish actually did MITM to show ads and Lenovo was trying to make money from it.
yellowapple 10y ago
Personally, since I have no plans of running Windows in the first place, Lenovo's spyware has effectively zero effect for me. That said, I'm quite happy with my Dell Latitude D830 and my PowerBook G4 :)

Since Lenovo preinstalled spyware/malware they can no longer be trusted.

by Apreche 10y ago

Since Lenovo preinstalled spyware/malware they can no longer be trusted.

the problem with this argument is that any manufacturer can be preinstalling spyware in the future and you won't know until it becomes public. Lenovo did but apparently stopped after it got caught. My point is that all OEM's are on the same boat.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
fatbird 10y ago
There's still a pretty big difference between "did install spyware" and "could install spyware". Everyone is a potential criminal; I'm still going to exercise more caution around convicted felons.
sliken 10y ago
Lenovo seems pretty unique and adding ugly hacks to their hardware (like disabling ACHI), and then changing the PCI ID of a "fake raid" chip. So not only does this break linux, but it also breaks the standard release of windows. So even if you want to install MS Windows from official microsoft media, you can't. Why would lenovo would disable AHCI (which breaks windows and linux), then mess with a fake RAID (despite having a single storage device). Seems like Lenovo REALLY doesn't want consumers reinstalling the OS.... makes one wonder.
- cheiVia0 10y ago
  Wasn't it concluded that it was to reduce power usage, and it was Intel that didn't provide a Linux driver? Edit: http://lwn.net/Articles/701635/ http://lwn.net/Articles/701635/

ThatGeoGuy 10y ago

I can sort of understand this sentiment, which is why I would instead encourage people to support https://minifree.org https://minifree.org. Same hardware, but you know the software is under your control. Want everything Lenovo laptops have to offer, but with software you the user can read and control? I don't have one myself, but I've heard good things, and X200s are not so old as to be unusable, especially with Linux.

eatbitseveryday 10y ago
>> Since Lenovo preinstalled spyware/malware they can no longer be trusted. > support https://minifree.org https://minifree.org. Same hardware, but you know the software is under your control. Maybe this is purely my own sentiment, but the manufacturer can install whatever it wants, so long as it's just on the disk. I buy the laptop for the hardware, not the software. If their behavior in doing this implicates them doing worse things, such as malware on device firmware or in the BIOS, or system management mode code, then one would be right to avoid this.
- swissoak 10y ago
  Exactly that happened on Lenovo laptops. There was BIOS level code that re-installed malware/spyware on your laptop even if you formatted and reinstalled from scratch or used an entirely new hard drive.

rhizome 10y ago

They didn't do that on Thinkpads, though.

criddell 10y ago
It's the same company though. I have two Thinkpads (I'm typing on a T520 right now) and today I wouldn't buy another. Even if you want to give them a pass for unethical behavior, Lenovo still installs a lot of extra software that you don't really need. If you do buy a Thinkpad, I recommend reformatting the machine and doing a stock Windows install.
- bchociej 10y ago
  Why not Linux?
  - criddell 10y ago
    Worse battery life. Really though, the applications you need should dictate the OS you use. If Linux works for you, by all means, use it.
    - ymse 10y ago
      I didn't downvote you, but even my Macbook friends were jealous of my 20+ hours on a Thinkpad x250 (9-cell). The default power settings on Linux are pretty bad, though. Anyone with Linux on their laptop should create a boot service that runs this command: powertop --auto-tune ...and observe battery time increase by ~25%.
- syshum 10y ago
  >>>If you do buy a Thinkpad, I recommend reformatting the machine and doing a stock Windows install. that should be done with all computers no matter who you buy it from
- mst 10y ago
  Personally, I've found the Thinkpad windows build to work better for me by far than a vanilla one (especially the projector stuff, which generally makes me a very happy bunny at conferences). However, given there's a recovery partition and you don't wipe it while doing a stock install, "try both and see which you prefer" is clearly an option.

syshum 10y ago

Yes because Lenovo is the only major vendor to install spyware, break ssl, or any other things. Dell has never done that... ohh wait https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/superfish-20-now-dell-breaking-https https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/superfish-20-now-dell-...

twiceaday 10y ago
Then add Dell to the list as well. What is your point?
- syshum 10y ago
  If I look deep enough I can find where every manufacturer has done this... that is my point. Dont use OEM Images, or better yet dont use Windows... that is my point
yuhong 10y ago
The Dell case at least was a honest mistake. Superfish actually did MITM to show ads and Lenovo was trying to make money from it.

yellowapple 10y ago

Personally, since I have no plans of running Windows in the first place, Lenovo's spyware has effectively zero effect for me. That said, I'm quite happy with my Dell Latitude D830 and my PowerBook G4 :)