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I've had a number of transactions blocked because my bank must've suspected fraud. I can count on zero hands the number of times it wasn't actually a transactio

by AgentME 10y ago

I've had a number of transactions blocked because my bank must've suspected fraud. I can count on zero hands the number of times it wasn't actually a transaction I wanted to go through. It's pretty awkward when I'm in the checkout line trying to pay for something or if it means some order gets delayed. I'm really thankful I have multiple credit cards which don't seem to all use the same fraud protection algorithms so I usually can just cycle to the next card, but it makes me a little uncomfortable that my solution is essentially just trusting the next service doesn't fuck up. >In the first case, it's a service they are providing you I like knowing that I have some money that I control myself, not through some service I have to worry about locking me out at inopportune times, though I admit it's mostly an ideological position than an economic one.

waterphone 10y ago
Same. Every single time my bank has killed my card for "suspected fraudulent use", it's been legitimate. The one time I was actually hit by a fraudulent use, they didn't even notice and I had to catch it myself and notify them. Even normal things like buying gas often get my card shut down and I have to call them and go through a long verification process to get access to my money again.
- UweSchmidt 10y ago
  Strange - no one in the game has any interest in you not conducting your business. Note that in cryptocurrency, there is no bank to call when your crypto "coins" are gone. Then it's gone harder than anything else that ever went, ever: - you can't explain to your family or friends what happened - law enforcement will hardly consider it a crime and in any case can't do anything about it - the community will berate you for not watching out better for yourself and somehow call your loss "a good thing" - if it's anything like Ethereum's DAO hack the fraud will not even be considered any wrongdoing at all - everyone in the game has already made their money by pre-mining or getting in early and nobody has your interest in mind
  - jjnoakes 10y ago
    > if it's anything like Ethereum's DAO hack the fraud will not even be considered any wrongdoing at all I would not use the word "fraud" here, regardless of which side of the Eth fork you sit on.
    - UweSchmidt 10y ago
      Heh, yeah? What would you call it? Either way, this confirms my point - Your cryptomoney is GONE and no one would even acknowledge ANY wrongdoing whatsoever. Hilariously you losing money is absolutely part of the pseudo-libertarian crypto worldview and not worrying anybody. But at the same time crypto currencies should replace real money? "DAO-Hacker just executed code as intended". "Of course you lose your money if a) your PC is hacked (easy) b) the wallet software is in beta (always is) c) your coins are not in a cold wallet (complicated) d) you are using the 3rd party providers/exchanges (which are hyped by the community) e) your password is weak etc. etc." I'm having a laugh but then again I haven't lost any money in this.
      - EdHominem 10y ago
        That's no more appropriate for every transaction than TCP is for every packet. If you want that service, buy it. Transfer your crypto-backed currency with a "trusted" party who will rollback certain transactions. Do this with a well-capitalized service in a country you can sue them in. But as we've seen with Paypal (and now Upwork), etc, that can be just as disastrous. They're un-sueable because of their size, and have draconian and arbitrary policies. Many people have had money confiscated or indefinitely frozen because of this misplaced trust.
  - Splined 10y ago
    Isn't that exactly what Operation Chokepoint [1] was doing? Using the banks to interfere with people conducting legal business? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point
runamok 10y ago
I've had both experiences. A few where somehow my card got leaked and other times I had to authorize a charge via a text message (which of course I did not notice until after I had decided to use a different card to replace the "declined" one.
haberman 10y ago
Having a transaction occasionally declined is a small price to pay for the amazing benefit of having zero liability for fraud. If someone steals your credit card and goes on a shopping spree, you can call up your credit card company and five minutes later any fraudulent charges are reversed. With Bitcoin that money would be gone forever.
- semiel 10y ago
  On the other hand, it's much easier to protect your Bitcoin keys than your credit card number. Credit cards basically require you to share your password with anyone you want to buy from, which is a pretty ridiculous security model. If you really want to get paranoid, you can buy something like a Trezor[0] or other hardware wallet. I'm pretty sure it would cost more than my net worth for someone to figure out how to compromise it, given the lengths[1] they've gone to to secure it. There's no equivalent option for credit cards. [0] http://bitcointrezor.com http://bitcointrezor.com [1] http://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-faq/software.html http://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-faq/software.html
  - kalleboo 10y ago
    One reason PayPal is so popular is that it means you don't have to give our your card number to merchants. Hopefully more online merchants will also accept Apple Pay which has the same benefit.
nickpsecurity 10y ago
" I'm really thankful I have multiple credit cards which don't seem to all use the same fraud protection algorithms so I usually can just cycle to the next card" That's actually a great observation that might fit into security advice on this issue somehow. Keep track of which banks freak out about which things. Get cards from more diverse-thinking ones. Reduce odds of unnecessary freezes or rejections. Now how to do the assessment itself...

by AgentME 10y ago

waterphone 10y ago

Same. Every single time my bank has killed my card for "suspected fraudulent use", it's been legitimate. The one time I was actually hit by a fraudulent use, they didn't even notice and I had to catch it myself and notify them. Even normal things like buying gas often get my card shut down and I have to call them and go through a long verification process to get access to my money again.

UweSchmidt 10y ago
Strange - no one in the game has any interest in you not conducting your business. Note that in cryptocurrency, there is no bank to call when your crypto "coins" are gone. Then it's gone harder than anything else that ever went, ever: - you can't explain to your family or friends what happened - law enforcement will hardly consider it a crime and in any case can't do anything about it - the community will berate you for not watching out better for yourself and somehow call your loss "a good thing" - if it's anything like Ethereum's DAO hack the fraud will not even be considered any wrongdoing at all - everyone in the game has already made their money by pre-mining or getting in early and nobody has your interest in mind
- jjnoakes 10y ago
  > if it's anything like Ethereum's DAO hack the fraud will not even be considered any wrongdoing at all I would not use the word "fraud" here, regardless of which side of the Eth fork you sit on.
  - UweSchmidt 10y ago
    Heh, yeah? What would you call it? Either way, this confirms my point - Your cryptomoney is GONE and no one would even acknowledge ANY wrongdoing whatsoever. Hilariously you losing money is absolutely part of the pseudo-libertarian crypto worldview and not worrying anybody. But at the same time crypto currencies should replace real money? "DAO-Hacker just executed code as intended". "Of course you lose your money if a) your PC is hacked (easy) b) the wallet software is in beta (always is) c) your coins are not in a cold wallet (complicated) d) you are using the 3rd party providers/exchanges (which are hyped by the community) e) your password is weak etc. etc." I'm having a laugh but then again I haven't lost any money in this.
    - EdHominem 10y ago
      That's no more appropriate for every transaction than TCP is for every packet. If you want that service, buy it. Transfer your crypto-backed currency with a "trusted" party who will rollback certain transactions. Do this with a well-capitalized service in a country you can sue them in. But as we've seen with Paypal (and now Upwork), etc, that can be just as disastrous. They're un-sueable because of their size, and have draconian and arbitrary policies. Many people have had money confiscated or indefinitely frozen because of this misplaced trust.
- Splined 10y ago
  Isn't that exactly what Operation Chokepoint [1] was doing? Using the banks to interfere with people conducting legal business? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point

runamok 10y ago

I've had both experiences. A few where somehow my card got leaked and other times I had to authorize a charge via a text message (which of course I did not notice until after I had decided to use a different card to replace the "declined" one.

haberman 10y ago

Having a transaction occasionally declined is a small price to pay for the amazing benefit of having zero liability for fraud. If someone steals your credit card and goes on a shopping spree, you can call up your credit card company and five minutes later any fraudulent charges are reversed. With Bitcoin that money would be gone forever.

semiel 10y ago
On the other hand, it's much easier to protect your Bitcoin keys than your credit card number. Credit cards basically require you to share your password with anyone you want to buy from, which is a pretty ridiculous security model. If you really want to get paranoid, you can buy something like a Trezor[0] or other hardware wallet. I'm pretty sure it would cost more than my net worth for someone to figure out how to compromise it, given the lengths[1] they've gone to to secure it. There's no equivalent option for credit cards. [0] http://bitcointrezor.com http://bitcointrezor.com [1] http://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-faq/software.html http://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-faq/software.html
- kalleboo 10y ago
  One reason PayPal is so popular is that it means you don't have to give our your card number to merchants. Hopefully more online merchants will also accept Apple Pay which has the same benefit.

nickpsecurity 10y ago

" I'm really thankful I have multiple credit cards which don't seem to all use the same fraud protection algorithms so I usually can just cycle to the next card" That's actually a great observation that might fit into security advice on this issue somehow. Keep track of which banks freak out about which things. Get cards from more diverse-thinking ones. Reduce odds of unnecessary freezes or rejections. Now how to do the assessment itself...