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The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon [0] which also had 'adaptive keys' and was for 'pros.' Leno

by hyperion2010 10y ago

The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon [0] which also had 'adaptive keys' and was for 'pros.' Lenovo reverted in their 3rd and 4th generations because users did not like it, and it was not as useful as the function keys. Apparently Apple is like a child and can only learn from their own mistakes, if at all. 0. https://www.google.com/search?q=2nd+generation+thinkpad+x1+carbon&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=2nd+generation+thinkpad+x1+c...

ghostly_s 10y ago
Like nearly every other new human input hardware, this was poorly implemented by the PC-maker and had abysmal supporting software. The problem with the X1 gen2 is the execution, not the concept, and Apple damn well knows that.
mcphage 10y ago
> The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon [...] Apparently Apple is like a child and can only learn from their own mistakes, if at all. Apple also likes finding things that (they think are) good ideas that other companies executed on poorly, and execute on them better. So yes, they did see the thinkpad adaptive keys, and thought they could make them work. Whether they can remains to be seen, but trying things that other companies did poorly is one of their major business plans.
Luc 10y ago
> The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon Come on, it's reasonable to assume they had every existing device with anything resembling a touch bar to analyse and learn from. If the problems with the thinkpad's adaptive keys were obvious to most users, they were obvious to Apple engineers. Problems with other devices are opportunities to them.
hn_user2 10y ago
I think Apple has a little more influence on application developers to gain adoption than Lenovo does. How many applications were modified to take advantage of the Lenovo adaptive keys? Now compare that to developers already playing with and releasing software that makes use of the touch bar.
- ashark 10y ago
  Part of it's not influence exactly, but more like demographics. You're developing a Windows application. 0.1% of your users (or less) have this Lenovo adaptive keys thing. How much time do you spend trying to support it? Zero, obviously, unless you have some sort of special bundling deal with Lenovo or something like that. You're developing a Mac application. 5% of your users have the touch bar. The number is growing every year. Users with lots of disposable income and a willingness to spend it are over-represented in that 5% to a large degree. How much time to do you spend trying to support it? Maybe some, and the chance that you will grows rapidly as its adoption grows.

ghostly_s 10y ago

Like nearly every other new human input hardware, this was poorly implemented by the PC-maker and had abysmal supporting software. The problem with the X1 gen2 is the execution, not the concept, and Apple damn well knows that.

mcphage 10y ago

> The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon [...] Apparently Apple is like a child and can only learn from their own mistakes, if at all. Apple also likes finding things that (they think are) good ideas that other companies executed on poorly, and execute on them better. So yes, they did see the thinkpad adaptive keys, and thought they could make them work. Whether they can remains to be seen, but trying things that other companies did poorly is one of their major business plans.

Luc 10y ago

> The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon Come on, it's reasonable to assume they had every existing device with anything resembling a touch bar to analyse and learn from. If the problems with the thinkpad's adaptive keys were obvious to most users, they were obvious to Apple engineers. Problems with other devices are opportunities to them.

hn_user2 10y ago

I think Apple has a little more influence on application developers to gain adoption than Lenovo does. How many applications were modified to take advantage of the Lenovo adaptive keys? Now compare that to developers already playing with and releasing software that makes use of the touch bar.

ashark 10y ago
Part of it's not influence exactly, but more like demographics. You're developing a Windows application. 0.1% of your users (or less) have this Lenovo adaptive keys thing. How much time do you spend trying to support it? Zero, obviously, unless you have some sort of special bundling deal with Lenovo or something like that. You're developing a Mac application. 5% of your users have the touch bar. The number is growing every year. Users with lots of disposable income and a willingness to spend it are over-represented in that 5% to a large degree. How much time to do you spend trying to support it? Maybe some, and the chance that you will grows rapidly as its adoption grows.