5 ms·

> I haven't used the F-keys in probably just as long. At this point, all I do with those keys is raise/lower the volume/screen brightness. This... puzzles me.

by ctrl-j 10y ago

> I haven't used the F-keys in probably just as long. At this point, all I do with those keys is raise/lower the volume/screen brightness. This... puzzles me. Admittedly I spend most of my personal time in linux, and professional time in windows, but I never have enough keys for shortcuts. Like.. I'm up to binding ctrl-shift-* and ctrl-alt-* Is macOS not very able to be keyboard driven? Or is that personal preference?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jamesgeck0 10y ago
By default, the function keys on MacBooks are bound to alternate functions; the F1/F2 keys adjust the brightness, F11/F12 volume, etc. You have to hold down the `fn` key to actually press F1, F2, etc. This makes them a bit less convenient than on Windows laptops.
- lsaferite 10y ago
  Or you put them in default F-key mode and use Fn to do those secondary functions instead. My keyboard has F-keys that act as F-keys so I can use them while debugging and such.
- dpark 10y ago
  That's the default on every windows laptop I've used in the past decade as well. Laptop manufacturers realized a long time ago that volume and screen brightness are more important to the average consumer.
- favadi 10y ago
  You can inverse it though.
starquake 10y ago
macOS applications use other shortcuts for things where Linux applications use function keys. For example in Chrome: Refresh Webbrowser - F5 - CMD+R Close Tab - Alt+F4 or CTRL+W - CMD+W By default most function keys don't even work as regular function keys in macOS unless you use fn+F1. They are mapped to OS related stuff like brightness, play/skip and volume.
mstade 10y ago
I'd say most of my time is spent in macOS, with perhaps a third of it spent in Windows. I don't really use F-keys in windows either. It seems these days the typical key mappings in Windows and macOS are essentially the same – Cmd+W closes a window on macOS, Ctrl+W does the same in windows. Perhaps the only time I use F-keys in windows is Alt+F4 to close an application, but even that just doesn't happen very often since closing the last window typically closes the application. On macOS I use the keyboard for almost everything, but off hand I don't know a single key binding relying on F-keys. They're always Cmd[+Shift][+Alt]+Alphanum more or less.
- dpark 10y ago
  > Ctrl+W does the same in windows No, it doesn't. Ctrl+W isn't a general shortcut on Windows. A number of programs have adopted it to close windows/tabs (seems to have risen to prominence after browsers started binding it), but it's not a standard binding still. e.g. It does nothing in Outlook or Notepad. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12445/windows-keyboard-shortcuts https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12445/windows-keybo...
  - Someone 10y ago
    AFAIK, command-W is a Microsoft invention. They introduced it in Word, Excel and IE for the Mac, then copied it to Office for Windows. Apple adopted it in its UI guidelines. The "Apple Human Interface Guidelines" (1987) surely doesn't mention it (it has undo/cut/copy/paste, new/open/save, cancel and help, and plain/bold/italic/underline) "Windows User Experience" (1999) doesn't mention it, either. "OS X Human Interface Guidelines" (2015) does mention it (aside: I find it good to see that the online version already has a section on the Touch Bar (https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/AbouttheTouchBar.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000957-CH104-SW1 https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Us...). It also has a new name: macOS Human Interface Guidelines)
  - mstade 10y ago
    Oh, interesting – I learned something today, thanks! All applications I use support this, so I just assumed it was generally available.
gumby 10y ago
(FWIW macOS can be keyboard driven as much as Windows can. I used a macbook pro with a broken touchpad as my primary computer for about 18 months since it otherwise worked fine. But like other commenters I have never used the "F" keys except for the printed functions of changing keyboard and screen brightness, and volume. I don't even know what those other keys do.) The big lesson here is that other peoples' mileage may vary, and Apple knows that people who touch type function keys and/or use vi on MacBooks are a sufficiently small market that they can simply be served by mapping caps lock (likely a key they don't use either). In fact come to think of it, caps lock is a perfect example: it's clearly not there for developers, yet nobody complains about the waste of having it on the keyboard. There are enough people who use it to leave it around.

by ctrl-j 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

jamesgeck0 10y ago

By default, the function keys on MacBooks are bound to alternate functions; the F1/F2 keys adjust the brightness, F11/F12 volume, etc. You have to hold down the `fn` key to actually press F1, F2, etc. This makes them a bit less convenient than on Windows laptops.

lsaferite 10y ago
Or you put them in default F-key mode and use Fn to do those secondary functions instead. My keyboard has F-keys that act as F-keys so I can use them while debugging and such.
dpark 10y ago
That's the default on every windows laptop I've used in the past decade as well. Laptop manufacturers realized a long time ago that volume and screen brightness are more important to the average consumer.
favadi 10y ago
You can inverse it though.

starquake 10y ago

macOS applications use other shortcuts for things where Linux applications use function keys. For example in Chrome: Refresh Webbrowser - F5 - CMD+R Close Tab - Alt+F4 or CTRL+W - CMD+W By default most function keys don't even work as regular function keys in macOS unless you use fn+F1. They are mapped to OS related stuff like brightness, play/skip and volume.

mstade 10y ago

I'd say most of my time is spent in macOS, with perhaps a third of it spent in Windows. I don't really use F-keys in windows either. It seems these days the typical key mappings in Windows and macOS are essentially the same – Cmd+W closes a window on macOS, Ctrl+W does the same in windows. Perhaps the only time I use F-keys in windows is Alt+F4 to close an application, but even that just doesn't happen very often since closing the last window typically closes the application. On macOS I use the keyboard for almost everything, but off hand I don't know a single key binding relying on F-keys. They're always Cmd[+Shift][+Alt]+Alphanum more or less.

dpark 10y ago
> Ctrl+W does the same in windows No, it doesn't. Ctrl+W isn't a general shortcut on Windows. A number of programs have adopted it to close windows/tabs (seems to have risen to prominence after browsers started binding it), but it's not a standard binding still. e.g. It does nothing in Outlook or Notepad. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12445/windows-keyboard-shortcuts https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12445/windows-keybo...
- Someone 10y ago
  AFAIK, command-W is a Microsoft invention. They introduced it in Word, Excel and IE for the Mac, then copied it to Office for Windows. Apple adopted it in its UI guidelines. The "Apple Human Interface Guidelines" (1987) surely doesn't mention it (it has undo/cut/copy/paste, new/open/save, cancel and help, and plain/bold/italic/underline) "Windows User Experience" (1999) doesn't mention it, either. "OS X Human Interface Guidelines" (2015) does mention it (aside: I find it good to see that the online version already has a section on the Touch Bar (https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/AbouttheTouchBar.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000957-CH104-SW1 https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Us...). It also has a new name: macOS Human Interface Guidelines)
- mstade 10y ago
  Oh, interesting – I learned something today, thanks! All applications I use support this, so I just assumed it was generally available.

gumby 10y ago

(FWIW macOS can be keyboard driven as much as Windows can. I used a macbook pro with a broken touchpad as my primary computer for about 18 months since it otherwise worked fine. But like other commenters I have never used the "F" keys except for the printed functions of changing keyboard and screen brightness, and volume. I don't even know what those other keys do.) The big lesson here is that other peoples' mileage may vary, and Apple knows that people who touch type function keys and/or use vi on MacBooks are a sufficiently small market that they can simply be served by mapping caps lock (likely a key they don't use either). In fact come to think of it, caps lock is a perfect example: it's clearly not there for developers, yet nobody complains about the waste of having it on the keyboard. There are enough people who use it to leave it around.