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> I'm willing to wager $10000 that a significant majority of HN commenters in any thread do not read the article in full, and even among those who do, a smaller

by agentgt 10y ago

> I'm willing to wager $10000 that a significant majority of HN commenters in any thread do not read the article in full, and even among those who do, a smaller minority actually post comments addressing the meat of what the article is saying. I'm curious... did you read the article in full? I'm not saying you're wrong but it would be funny if you didn't read it as well :) One of the things I like about Scientific America is they have an Executive Summary at the start of the article. So while folks may not have the details they at least have the correct gist. I skimmed the article. Do I have pre-formed opinions... I do. Would they have changed after reading the article in detail ... they might have if there was some hard evidence other than the obvious stat that the US is bad in math. My question (I'm having my first child with in a month) is what do I do as a parent other than be patient: "Training teachers in a new way of thinking will take time, and American parents will need to be patient. In Japan, the transition did not happen overnight. When Takahashi began teaching in the new style, parents initially complained about the young instructor experimenting on their children." My father forced my brother and I into Kumon. Kumon was hardly imaginative. Did it work? I think a little bit. Education techniques particularly math has changed so many times that it is beginning to look like diet and exercises. We are all a little jaded so I can understand the plethora of pre-formed opinions.

jimhefferon 10y ago
> My question (I'm having my first child with in a month) is what do I do as a parent other than be patient: You could look into how your local public school system teaches. Taking to the people who teach there, for instance, is helpful. Expressing support for an NCTM-like approach, if you find you do support it, would also be great. > Education techniques particularly math has changed so many times that it is beginning to look like diet and exercises. We are all a little jaded so I can understand the plethora of pre-formed opinions. I understand and as a person who teaches math, and teaches teachers too, I feel the same impatience. I want to know why we don't just go out and see, on actual students, what actually makes them better at understanding and being able to solve problems. Try different things and see what works. Review video tapes. Give before and after tests, and focus groups, and see what the people in the class learn the most from. Train teachers in the details of doing the job, as an engineer or doctor would be trained in details. The thing is, that's what the folks described here are doing. Have they got the final answer? I doubt it, particularly as the impacts of tech is so little understood even now. But they are making progress, at least it seems that way to me. (If you are interested, Building a Better Teacher is a source that would give you more of an understanding of what the discussion is. This article was part of the marketing people's plants for the book.)
- mordocai 10y ago
  > I want to know why we don't just go out and see, on actual students, what actually makes them better at understanding and being able to solve problems. Try different things and see what works. Review video tapes. Give before and after tests, and focus groups, and see what the people in the class learn the most from. Probably because parents don't want their kids to be one on the receiving end of an experimental technique that doesn't work and sets back their child's learning and development by an unknown amount.
- bpyne 10y ago
  This comment is related to your muse starting with "I want to know why..." I'm simply pondering and looking for feedback from someone who is actually a teaching professional unlike myself. "There [my comment: Finland], as in Japan, teachers teach for 600 or fewer hours each school year, leaving them ample time to prepare, revise and learn. By contrast, American teachers spend nearly 1,100 hours with little feedback." This line took my notice. I have to wonder if their school systems are such that teachers do not have to be in front of students 6 continuous hours daily as my daughter's teachers do. (My daughter is in elementary school.) By the time her teachers finish with students, attend after-school meetings and grade, I can see there being precious little mental energy left for professional development. My friend Scott made a career change a decade ago. After being a software developer for 22 years, he switched to teaching tech in a middle school. His comment to me after his first year was that teaching is much more exhausting because you have to be "on" 5-6 hours daily. If you're "off", students pick up on it and reflect it. His opinion hasn't changed after a decade.
  - jimhefferon 10y ago
    My only comment would be that I find what your friend Scott finds. I don't teach middle school, I teach in college, so my day is more mixed than his. But my training was as a high school teacher and my wife is a high school teacher, and I do find that her routine is exhausting. I hear you about having little mental energy left. There are lots of intensely dedicated teachers but it is unreasonable to expect that they will be on 24-7. They get to have families, to have hobbies, etc., just like everybody else. Just like engineers, police officers, and any other highly trained professional. (It is especially discouraging, for me, when someone writes a letter to the editor seeming to assert that teaching is something women do so they get summers off with their kids, kind of a hobby. Those make me cringe.)

by agentgt 10y ago

jimhefferon 10y ago

> My question (I'm having my first child with in a month) is what do I do as a parent other than be patient: You could look into how your local public school system teaches. Taking to the people who teach there, for instance, is helpful. Expressing support for an NCTM-like approach, if you find you do support it, would also be great. > Education techniques particularly math has changed so many times that it is beginning to look like diet and exercises. We are all a little jaded so I can understand the plethora of pre-formed opinions. I understand and as a person who teaches math, and teaches teachers too, I feel the same impatience. I want to know why we don't just go out and see, on actual students, what actually makes them better at understanding and being able to solve problems. Try different things and see what works. Review video tapes. Give before and after tests, and focus groups, and see what the people in the class learn the most from. Train teachers in the details of doing the job, as an engineer or doctor would be trained in details. The thing is, that's what the folks described here are doing. Have they got the final answer? I doubt it, particularly as the impacts of tech is so little understood even now. But they are making progress, at least it seems that way to me. (If you are interested, Building a Better Teacher is a source that would give you more of an understanding of what the discussion is. This article was part of the marketing people's plants for the book.)

mordocai 10y ago
> I want to know why we don't just go out and see, on actual students, what actually makes them better at understanding and being able to solve problems. Try different things and see what works. Review video tapes. Give before and after tests, and focus groups, and see what the people in the class learn the most from. Probably because parents don't want their kids to be one on the receiving end of an experimental technique that doesn't work and sets back their child's learning and development by an unknown amount.
bpyne 10y ago
This comment is related to your muse starting with "I want to know why..." I'm simply pondering and looking for feedback from someone who is actually a teaching professional unlike myself. "There [my comment: Finland], as in Japan, teachers teach for 600 or fewer hours each school year, leaving them ample time to prepare, revise and learn. By contrast, American teachers spend nearly 1,100 hours with little feedback." This line took my notice. I have to wonder if their school systems are such that teachers do not have to be in front of students 6 continuous hours daily as my daughter's teachers do. (My daughter is in elementary school.) By the time her teachers finish with students, attend after-school meetings and grade, I can see there being precious little mental energy left for professional development. My friend Scott made a career change a decade ago. After being a software developer for 22 years, he switched to teaching tech in a middle school. His comment to me after his first year was that teaching is much more exhausting because you have to be "on" 5-6 hours daily. If you're "off", students pick up on it and reflect it. His opinion hasn't changed after a decade.
- jimhefferon 10y ago
  My only comment would be that I find what your friend Scott finds. I don't teach middle school, I teach in college, so my day is more mixed than his. But my training was as a high school teacher and my wife is a high school teacher, and I do find that her routine is exhausting. I hear you about having little mental energy left. There are lots of intensely dedicated teachers but it is unreasonable to expect that they will be on 24-7. They get to have families, to have hobbies, etc., just like everybody else. Just like engineers, police officers, and any other highly trained professional. (It is especially discouraging, for me, when someone writes a letter to the editor seeming to assert that teaching is something women do so they get summers off with their kids, kind of a hobby. Those make me cringe.)