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Was it, though? The Macbook Pro was never marketed as a developer's machine. Its popularity among people who code was mostly due to the factors that made it pop

Was it, though? The Macbook Pro was never marketed as a developer's machine. Its popularity among people who code was mostly due to the factors that made it popular with people who don't code, plus the coincidence of being Unix under the hood (a choice they didn't make in order to win software developers as hardware customers).

crush_xc 10y ago
I always saw it as a strong portable machine for people who needed to work on the go. I'm sure video editors, photo editors, audio people use shortcuts and do touch typing.
- ch4s3 10y ago
  I know a number of video and photo editors, and while this is anecdata, I'm positive that none of them touch type. I've seen a few of the hunt and peck on a regular basis. I mean, I'm a software dev and I'm not great at typing either.
- paavokoya 10y ago
  As a professional photo/video/audio editor, my problem with this is not "touch-typing" but rather it's another thing I'll have to adjust my senses to. I'll have to relearn the keyboard and spend unnecessary time adjusting settings and configuration for something I don't need. On top of all this, the keyboard will feel more fragile and have more complexity. I prefer reliability over unnecessary complication.
awinder 10y ago
At the very least, there is then a missed opportunity on Apple's part to continue serving an audience that: A) Has been served by Apple in the past B) Provides value to Apple in the form of developing all kinds of software solutions that it's other users directly benefit from
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  Gonna point you to this reply, which is quite good: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12818193 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12818193
pram 10y ago
It's a choice NeXT made, though.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  The reason being the competition against Sun and SGI, as an easy way to bring developers into the system, not to let them out again. Objective-C frameworks for user space and drivers, use of distributed objects, designing GUI applications via Interface Builder, productivity applications like Lotus Improv and Virtuoso, the way applications were packaged didn't had much to do with UNIX culture as such.
slantyyz 10y ago
>> The Macbook Pro was never marketed as a developer's machine. That's probably true, but isn't its success in part driven by the deluge of Linux/Unix users who were thrilled to finally have a Unix based machine with a beautiful UI that ran on Intel CPUs? Also increased sales from word of mouth by those same ex Linux users telling their Windows using friends to switch?
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  I don't think Linux refugees and their recommendations would be enough to make something a top-selling product.
- derefr 10y ago
  One thing constantly said to founders here is "don't let a vocal minority come in, tell you they love your product, and then turn into bullies that tell you how you should make said product. You never made it for them; they aren't your market. Don't get confused into thinking they are, just because they're loud." I think that about sums up the relationship between Apple and software developers who use their hardware.
spacemanmatt 10y ago
Quite a coincidence to discover how well it serves them in the developer market. I think they planned it.
pjmlp 10y ago
I think many in HN make the mistake of mixing UNIX and developers on the same sentence. I happened to use LC III Macs and was a developer back then. A few years ago I did some work related to acquiring new customers, which required creating an iOS application. None of those experiences had anything to do with UNIX, yet I am a developer. Personally, the only reason I am not found of the new Macbook Pro is the price, as I rather have something like the W510's successor.
kccqzy 10y ago
I believe Linus Torvalds used to use a MacBook (can't remember which one) as his dev machine. He most definitely runs Linux and this has nothing to do with macOS being Unix under the hood. I think hardware quality is a major factor why the MacBook is popular.
gumby 10y ago
> The Macbook Pro was never marketed as a developer's machine. And in fact AFAIK the standard developer machine at Apple is an iMac (which has an escape key on its standard keyboard).

crush_xc 10y ago

I always saw it as a strong portable machine for people who needed to work on the go. I'm sure video editors, photo editors, audio people use shortcuts and do touch typing.

ch4s3 10y ago
I know a number of video and photo editors, and while this is anecdata, I'm positive that none of them touch type. I've seen a few of the hunt and peck on a regular basis. I mean, I'm a software dev and I'm not great at typing either.
paavokoya 10y ago
As a professional photo/video/audio editor, my problem with this is not "touch-typing" but rather it's another thing I'll have to adjust my senses to. I'll have to relearn the keyboard and spend unnecessary time adjusting settings and configuration for something I don't need. On top of all this, the keyboard will feel more fragile and have more complexity. I prefer reliability over unnecessary complication.

awinder 10y ago

At the very least, there is then a missed opportunity on Apple's part to continue serving an audience that: A) Has been served by Apple in the past B) Provides value to Apple in the form of developing all kinds of software solutions that it's other users directly benefit from

ubernostrum 10y ago
Gonna point you to this reply, which is quite good: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12818193 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12818193

pram 10y ago

It's a choice NeXT made, though.

pjmlp 10y ago
The reason being the competition against Sun and SGI, as an easy way to bring developers into the system, not to let them out again. Objective-C frameworks for user space and drivers, use of distributed objects, designing GUI applications via Interface Builder, productivity applications like Lotus Improv and Virtuoso, the way applications were packaged didn't had much to do with UNIX culture as such.

slantyyz 10y ago

>> The Macbook Pro was never marketed as a developer's machine. That's probably true, but isn't its success in part driven by the deluge of Linux/Unix users who were thrilled to finally have a Unix based machine with a beautiful UI that ran on Intel CPUs? Also increased sales from word of mouth by those same ex Linux users telling their Windows using friends to switch?

ubernostrum 10y ago
I don't think Linux refugees and their recommendations would be enough to make something a top-selling product.
derefr 10y ago
One thing constantly said to founders here is "don't let a vocal minority come in, tell you they love your product, and then turn into bullies that tell you how you should make said product. You never made it for them; they aren't your market. Don't get confused into thinking they are, just because they're loud." I think that about sums up the relationship between Apple and software developers who use their hardware.

spacemanmatt 10y ago

Quite a coincidence to discover how well it serves them in the developer market. I think they planned it.

pjmlp 10y ago

I think many in HN make the mistake of mixing UNIX and developers on the same sentence. I happened to use LC III Macs and was a developer back then. A few years ago I did some work related to acquiring new customers, which required creating an iOS application. None of those experiences had anything to do with UNIX, yet I am a developer. Personally, the only reason I am not found of the new Macbook Pro is the price, as I rather have something like the W510's successor.

kccqzy 10y ago

I believe Linus Torvalds used to use a MacBook (can't remember which one) as his dev machine. He most definitely runs Linux and this has nothing to do with macOS being Unix under the hood. I think hardware quality is a major factor why the MacBook is popular.

gumby 10y ago

> The Macbook Pro was never marketed as a developer's machine. And in fact AFAIK the standard developer machine at Apple is an iMac (which has an escape key on its standard keyboard).