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I agree that this is easily forgotten in the HN bubble. Sure, vi enthusiasts should be very upset that the escape key isn't real anymore, but for people like my

I agree that this is easily forgotten in the HN bubble. Sure, vi enthusiasts should be very upset that the escape key isn't real anymore, but for people like my parents or even younger cousins who don't touch type all that well, having a dynamic context menu right there on a keyboard that they're already looking at is fantastic. I'm interested to know if Apple ever kept stats on how often people would use the volume keys, for example, versus using the menubar control. I like to pretend that they use data to make decisions like this, but this Touch Bar still feels like a "look what we can do" move.

rickyc091 10y ago
Exactly this. I think what most people forget is that they are primarily targeting the new generation of kids growing up. The kids that are growing up with iPhones as their first cellphones, iPads as their first tablet and Macs as their first computers. That's what Apple wants. Kids these days are use to the whole idea of multitouch. See how many 15-16 year olds going into college know what a SD card or a USB drive is. Kids in high school are provided with chromebooks. They don't even know what .doc extension types are. It's a different time and they are targeting those kids.
- skyyler 10y ago
  >See how many 15-16 year olds going into college know what a SD card or a USB drive is Are you guessing that they won't? Phones and game systems still use SD cards and usb drives. Any kid that has a 3DS or a Wii U probably knows what an SD card is, or at the very least has seen one and knows how to use it. Flash drives are still commonly used (not sure what makes you think they aren't, have you tried to share a 5gb+ file with someone who is right beside you?) You're being pretty unfair to those 15-16 year olds you're talking about. They're not stupid.
  - Asooka 10y ago
    They're not stupid now, but if we obfuscate everything hard enough, maybe the future ones will be.
  - rickyc091 10y ago
    Apologies, disclaimer, I work with kids. I'm not saying all of them don't know it. Just as there are 9 year old developers, I'm sure there are plenty of kids who know about SD cards. What I was talking about was the general population though. To put it in perspective the first iPhone came out in 2007. A 15 year old now was 6 at that time; that's first grade. iPads came out in 2010. They were 9, fourth grade.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    I think you're overestimating the younger generation's exposure to technology. The Wii U and 3DS haven't really been the blockbuster sellers that previous game consoles have been, and really have not made it that deep into pop culture. Gamers will have them, but most teenagers are content playing on their phones. Most of them being iPhones, but even Android not all that commonly supporting (or needing) SD cards on every model. And you're seriously misjudging how often a teenager needs to share a 5gb+ file... basically never. The days of pirating, ripping CDs, ripping DVDs and sharing them are basically over. If it's not on Netflix or Amazon, it's not worth sharing. And in the rare case, Dropbox does the trick. Sure most teenagers are aware of flash drives and SD cards, in the same way teenagers 10 years ago were aware of floppy disks. They used them when school required them to, and haven't seen one since.
  - alttab 10y ago
    No USB/HDMI though? Your USB mouse... useless. Your external USB hard drives, useless. Your wired printer, useless. Not having USB is stupid - and for what, shaving 5mm off the thickness? Better go buy an apple mouse, a Thunder capable monitor, and a new wifi enabled printer.
    - skyyler 10y ago
      Or a generic adapter to hold you over until Type C replaces the old standard
- pjmlp 10y ago
  > See how many 15-16 year olds going into college know what a SD card or a USB drive is. All of them, they are on sale on most electronic stores and big supermarkets in Germany. > Kids in high school are provided with chromebooks. Here zero of them know what that is.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    >they are on sale on most electronic stores and big supermarkets in Germany. Yeah and they also sell cassette-to-3.5mm adapters. It doesn't mean they're exactly culturally relevant.
tstrimple 10y ago
Which is why those features should be put in the non-pro models. Your parents can buy a Macbook or even an iPad. The main complaint I'm seeing, and the reason I'm likely moving back to Windows for my primary device is that there is no Pro model of the Macbook anymore.
audunw 10y ago
Does the vi crowd care? Haven't they all mapped escape to caps-lock ages ago?
- alttab 10y ago
  What?! Tell me more...
KirinDave 10y ago
I feel like this is trying to create a positive story out of a rather big disappointment. Because if we were really pandering to this wide audience then we'd be enabling touch. 2-year old children can navigate touch-native interfaces (so long as there are no context switches), but a secondary input method is beyond them. And having become accustomed to having touch everywhere, I cannot count the times I find it more expedient to point or draw on the screen (even from home row type position to a laptop) rather than switch to the touchpad.

rickyc091 10y ago

Exactly this. I think what most people forget is that they are primarily targeting the new generation of kids growing up. The kids that are growing up with iPhones as their first cellphones, iPads as their first tablet and Macs as their first computers. That's what Apple wants. Kids these days are use to the whole idea of multitouch. See how many 15-16 year olds going into college know what a SD card or a USB drive is. Kids in high school are provided with chromebooks. They don't even know what .doc extension types are. It's a different time and they are targeting those kids.

skyyler 10y ago
>See how many 15-16 year olds going into college know what a SD card or a USB drive is Are you guessing that they won't? Phones and game systems still use SD cards and usb drives. Any kid that has a 3DS or a Wii U probably knows what an SD card is, or at the very least has seen one and knows how to use it. Flash drives are still commonly used (not sure what makes you think they aren't, have you tried to share a 5gb+ file with someone who is right beside you?) You're being pretty unfair to those 15-16 year olds you're talking about. They're not stupid.
- Asooka 10y ago
  They're not stupid now, but if we obfuscate everything hard enough, maybe the future ones will be.
- rickyc091 10y ago
  Apologies, disclaimer, I work with kids. I'm not saying all of them don't know it. Just as there are 9 year old developers, I'm sure there are plenty of kids who know about SD cards. What I was talking about was the general population though. To put it in perspective the first iPhone came out in 2007. A 15 year old now was 6 at that time; that's first grade. iPads came out in 2010. They were 9, fourth grade.
- freehunter 10y ago
  I think you're overestimating the younger generation's exposure to technology. The Wii U and 3DS haven't really been the blockbuster sellers that previous game consoles have been, and really have not made it that deep into pop culture. Gamers will have them, but most teenagers are content playing on their phones. Most of them being iPhones, but even Android not all that commonly supporting (or needing) SD cards on every model. And you're seriously misjudging how often a teenager needs to share a 5gb+ file... basically never. The days of pirating, ripping CDs, ripping DVDs and sharing them are basically over. If it's not on Netflix or Amazon, it's not worth sharing. And in the rare case, Dropbox does the trick. Sure most teenagers are aware of flash drives and SD cards, in the same way teenagers 10 years ago were aware of floppy disks. They used them when school required them to, and haven't seen one since.
- alttab 10y ago
  No USB/HDMI though? Your USB mouse... useless. Your external USB hard drives, useless. Your wired printer, useless. Not having USB is stupid - and for what, shaving 5mm off the thickness? Better go buy an apple mouse, a Thunder capable monitor, and a new wifi enabled printer.
  - skyyler 10y ago
    Or a generic adapter to hold you over until Type C replaces the old standard
pjmlp 10y ago
> See how many 15-16 year olds going into college know what a SD card or a USB drive is. All of them, they are on sale on most electronic stores and big supermarkets in Germany. > Kids in high school are provided with chromebooks. Here zero of them know what that is.
- freehunter 10y ago
  >they are on sale on most electronic stores and big supermarkets in Germany. Yeah and they also sell cassette-to-3.5mm adapters. It doesn't mean they're exactly culturally relevant.

tstrimple 10y ago

Which is why those features should be put in the non-pro models. Your parents can buy a Macbook or even an iPad. The main complaint I'm seeing, and the reason I'm likely moving back to Windows for my primary device is that there is no Pro model of the Macbook anymore.

audunw 10y ago

Does the vi crowd care? Haven't they all mapped escape to caps-lock ages ago?

alttab 10y ago
What?! Tell me more...

KirinDave 10y ago

I feel like this is trying to create a positive story out of a rather big disappointment. Because if we were really pandering to this wide audience then we'd be enabling touch. 2-year old children can navigate touch-native interfaces (so long as there are no context switches), but a secondary input method is beyond them. And having become accustomed to having touch everywhere, I cannot count the times I find it more expedient to point or draw on the screen (even from home row type position to a laptop) rather than switch to the touchpad.