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It's the attitude of the Angular 2 team that makes me glad I decided to choose Aurelia instead. Nobody seems to realise that Angular 2 exists first and foremost

It's the attitude of the Angular 2 team that makes me glad I decided to choose Aurelia instead. Nobody seems to realise that Angular 2 exists first and foremost to meet the needs of Google's internal Green Tea team and not the public. This is just one of many things that should make people think twice about using Angular 2. The fact the team seemingly take input from a select handful of "Google experts" to guide the framework should be an alarm bell in itself. NG2 is a monolithic and over-engineered framework backed by a company who have proven they conflict with themselves (Polymer) and deprecate popular services on a whim (Google Reader). I personally use TypeScript in my Aurelia applications, but I think you should allow developers to write using straight-up Javascript. We're getting to the point (or if you're writing evergreen focused web applications, you're there now) where we will be able to write Javascript without a transpiler soon (for most things). I love TypeScript, but we can't forget what it's a subset of and some have the view that Javascript doesn't need types or interfaces.

mindw0rk 10y ago
Nobody say that you are not allowed to write in es5/es6. It's just docs that not going to be updated for es6
rubber_duck 10y ago
>Nobody seems to realise that Angular 2 exists first and foremost to meet the needs of Google's internal Green Tea team and not the public. Isn't Google using Dart internally ? From what I've seen all their NG2 projects use the Dart version and their Material design component lib is Dart ? So if what you were saying was true they would dump the TS/JS version and migrate the team to work on the Dart version 100% and not maintain two separate code bases (like they are now after the Dart/TS source split) and wouldn't even bother with the Material design for TS ? Honestly I'm not even sure why Google is spending all this effort on the ng2 TS/JS as what I said above would make more business sense - I doubt that ng2 is making them any money if they aren't using it (I'm talking about the TS version).
- ti994a 10y ago
  Dart team member here. Google is using Dart heavily internally. Many, many significant apps (think Adwords, Adsense, Google Fiber, and a pile more) are shipping on AngularDart 2.0 today. It's not accurate to say that AngularDart exists first and foremost to meet the needs of one internal team - it exists to provide a great framework for apps of this type (significant, complex web apps). We think we're making pretty awesome progress here - we've been able to dramatically increase velocity since the source split (a couple of months ago), and have made really large improvements already in application performance and in shrinking the size of the compiled JS for AngularDart apps.
  - rubber_duck 10y ago
    I was just saying if OP criticism about Google only caring about internal use was true Angular Dart would be the only ng2 supported by Google, not suggesting that's being developed for Google only, I'm actually a fan of both Dart and AngularDart so gj from me :)
scarmig 10y ago
I love how any discussion about any Google product or news inevitably segues into a whine about a discontinued product from 2013.
- egeozcan 10y ago
  > segues into a whine about a discontinued product from 2013 I see this happening too often but I don't see how that happened in the parent comment though.
  - epimetheus 10y ago
    > NG2 is a monolithic and over-engineered framework backed by a company who have proven they conflict with themselves (Polymer) and deprecate popular services on a whim (Google Reader). It's a tiny bit of a stretch to call it a whine, but it's old when it's brought up constantly, tbh.
stephenhuey 10y ago
While I'm not using TypeScript in my Aurelia application yet, I'm thinking about using it at least partially in the future. I also agree about the risk of Google not committing to Angular users. In response to that, the makers of Aurelia have asserted time and time again that they are trying to have a very different mindset and wholeheartedly cater to their users.
- mholmes680 10y ago
  So I never heard of Aurelia, but now I've watched their video and explored the website. Looks cool, but... Google:Angular :: BlueSpire:Aurelia, no? So I'm betting on a small company surviving, vs Google at a whim killing off a thing they probably won't kill off unless they make a whole new v3 that is not related to v2 ? What am i missing?
  - stephenhuey 10y ago
    Good point. Rob, the creator of Aurelia, left the Angular team after he decided that Angular 2 was not following standards to his liking. He has pointed out repeatedly on the blog and in interviews that Google is not committed to Angular in the sense that many companies commit to their products, whereas Blue Spire's business model is 100% dedicated to supporting Aurelia and nothing else. Google does not make money from Angular, a lot of internal stuff (most internal stuff?) at Google is not built with Angular, and Google could drop support for Angular at any time.
ascorbic 10y ago
> I think you should allow developers to write using straight-up Javascript. They do, just not ES6. "The examples of the docs are planned to be written in TS, ES5 and Dart". I tend to agree with their argument that if you're using ES6, why not just use TS.
- krzyk 10y ago
  Because ES6 is a standard and TS is not. Moreover ES6 is almost fully supported by current browsers (besides IE11) so you don't have to use transpiler (which adds a performance overhead).
- Oletros 10y ago
  That quote is talking about documentation, not about coding
  - ascorbic 10y ago
    Which is what this story is about. You're welcome to use ES6 and transpile it. They just don't provide docs.
abalashov 10y ago
Angular 2 strikes me as a manifestation of the inevitable tendency of all perfectly good frameworks to, just as they reach a likeable maturity, suddenly explode into a morbidly obese, suffocatingly bureaucratic J2EE-type Mother of All Frameworks, because merely working well and serving a purpose just isn't good enough.
Kudos 10y ago
What's Green Tea team and why is Angular tailored for them?
- gt2 10y ago
  Green Tea is Google's internal CRM system and something to do with AdWords. I guess why it's tailored to them is somewhat self explanatory -- they want a framework that handles the specific frontend needs their projects have.

mindw0rk 10y ago

Nobody say that you are not allowed to write in es5/es6. It's just docs that not going to be updated for es6

rubber_duck 10y ago

>Nobody seems to realise that Angular 2 exists first and foremost to meet the needs of Google's internal Green Tea team and not the public. Isn't Google using Dart internally ? From what I've seen all their NG2 projects use the Dart version and their Material design component lib is Dart ? So if what you were saying was true they would dump the TS/JS version and migrate the team to work on the Dart version 100% and not maintain two separate code bases (like they are now after the Dart/TS source split) and wouldn't even bother with the Material design for TS ? Honestly I'm not even sure why Google is spending all this effort on the ng2 TS/JS as what I said above would make more business sense - I doubt that ng2 is making them any money if they aren't using it (I'm talking about the TS version).

ti994a 10y ago
Dart team member here. Google is using Dart heavily internally. Many, many significant apps (think Adwords, Adsense, Google Fiber, and a pile more) are shipping on AngularDart 2.0 today. It's not accurate to say that AngularDart exists first and foremost to meet the needs of one internal team - it exists to provide a great framework for apps of this type (significant, complex web apps). We think we're making pretty awesome progress here - we've been able to dramatically increase velocity since the source split (a couple of months ago), and have made really large improvements already in application performance and in shrinking the size of the compiled JS for AngularDart apps.
- rubber_duck 10y ago
  I was just saying if OP criticism about Google only caring about internal use was true Angular Dart would be the only ng2 supported by Google, not suggesting that's being developed for Google only, I'm actually a fan of both Dart and AngularDart so gj from me :)

scarmig 10y ago

I love how any discussion about any Google product or news inevitably segues into a whine about a discontinued product from 2013.

egeozcan 10y ago
> segues into a whine about a discontinued product from 2013 I see this happening too often but I don't see how that happened in the parent comment though.
- epimetheus 10y ago
  > NG2 is a monolithic and over-engineered framework backed by a company who have proven they conflict with themselves (Polymer) and deprecate popular services on a whim (Google Reader). It's a tiny bit of a stretch to call it a whine, but it's old when it's brought up constantly, tbh.

stephenhuey 10y ago

While I'm not using TypeScript in my Aurelia application yet, I'm thinking about using it at least partially in the future. I also agree about the risk of Google not committing to Angular users. In response to that, the makers of Aurelia have asserted time and time again that they are trying to have a very different mindset and wholeheartedly cater to their users.

mholmes680 10y ago
So I never heard of Aurelia, but now I've watched their video and explored the website. Looks cool, but... Google:Angular :: BlueSpire:Aurelia, no? So I'm betting on a small company surviving, vs Google at a whim killing off a thing they probably won't kill off unless they make a whole new v3 that is not related to v2 ? What am i missing?
- stephenhuey 10y ago
  Good point. Rob, the creator of Aurelia, left the Angular team after he decided that Angular 2 was not following standards to his liking. He has pointed out repeatedly on the blog and in interviews that Google is not committed to Angular in the sense that many companies commit to their products, whereas Blue Spire's business model is 100% dedicated to supporting Aurelia and nothing else. Google does not make money from Angular, a lot of internal stuff (most internal stuff?) at Google is not built with Angular, and Google could drop support for Angular at any time.

ascorbic 10y ago

> I think you should allow developers to write using straight-up Javascript. They do, just not ES6. "The examples of the docs are planned to be written in TS, ES5 and Dart". I tend to agree with their argument that if you're using ES6, why not just use TS.

krzyk 10y ago
Because ES6 is a standard and TS is not. Moreover ES6 is almost fully supported by current browsers (besides IE11) so you don't have to use transpiler (which adds a performance overhead).
Oletros 10y ago
That quote is talking about documentation, not about coding
- ascorbic 10y ago
  Which is what this story is about. You're welcome to use ES6 and transpile it. They just don't provide docs.

abalashov 10y ago

Angular 2 strikes me as a manifestation of the inevitable tendency of all perfectly good frameworks to, just as they reach a likeable maturity, suddenly explode into a morbidly obese, suffocatingly bureaucratic J2EE-type Mother of All Frameworks, because merely working well and serving a purpose just isn't good enough.

Kudos 10y ago

What's Green Tea team and why is Angular tailored for them?

gt2 10y ago
Green Tea is Google's internal CRM system and something to do with AdWords. I guess why it's tailored to them is somewhat self explanatory -- they want a framework that handles the specific frontend needs their projects have.