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>The teachers were taught math badly I'm a college math professor, and I've talked to people who've taught the required "math for elementary ed majors" class.

>The teachers were taught math badly I'm a college math professor, and I've talked to people who've taught the required "math for elementary ed majors" class. From everything I've heard, it's bleakly depressing. The students (i.e., the future teachers) show little aptitude, curiosity, or work ethic. They just want to be shown algorithms that will always lead them to the correct answer. I haven't taught such a course myself. I hope what I've heard is exaggerated. Liking kids is well and good, but if you're going to be a teacher then you should also like learning. My own elementary school teachers did, and everyone deserves an education as good as the one I got.

ArkyBeagle 10y ago
I went to a university that used to be a normal school. I am not sure the math ed. majors "showed little aptitude" ( they got better grades than I did ) nor curiosity, but they were quieter people.
- impendia 10y ago
  I should clarify that these are the elementary ed students. I've personally taught students training to become high school math teachers, and they have been pretty good.
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    Yessir - my bad.
germinalphrase 10y ago
This is likely different state-to-state, but I am aware that in the upper midwest primary education degrees are cross-subject area in focus. Your elementary teacher may not be a math major because they are expected to teach all subjects. There is also probably some bias against deep content knowledge because "it's elementary school after all". Secondary Education degrees are subject specific, so secondary education math students would, in fact, be mathematics majors.
- kaitai 10y ago
  In the US, rules are not so strict. In 2007-08, 71.6 percent of secondary math teachers had been math majors. An additional 16.2 percent were certified in math but did not do a math major. 12.2 percent of secondary math teachers had neither a major nor a certification in math [1]. The number of uncertified non-math-major math teachers is much higher in lower grades, as you point out. [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=58 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=58
- impendia 10y ago
  >Your elementary teacher may not be a math major In general they won't be, and I wouldn't expect them to be. The subject matter of these classes is usually much simpler than freshman calculus. It's not math per se that I care about here. If, for example, these future elementary teachers disliked reading and displayed the same attitude towards being asked to write critically about a novel, then I would consider that equally disqualifying.
mathattack 10y ago
The limit of learning in a classroom is the teacher. If there's a great teacher, the kids can learn a lot. When the teacher lacks capacity (intelligence, leadership & empathy) then the learning is capped. Outside of people who explicitly want to teach math, the math skills of most K-8 folks I've seen is abysmal.

ArkyBeagle 10y ago

I went to a university that used to be a normal school. I am not sure the math ed. majors "showed little aptitude" ( they got better grades than I did ) nor curiosity, but they were quieter people.

impendia 10y ago
I should clarify that these are the elementary ed students. I've personally taught students training to become high school math teachers, and they have been pretty good.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  Yessir - my bad.

germinalphrase 10y ago

This is likely different state-to-state, but I am aware that in the upper midwest primary education degrees are cross-subject area in focus. Your elementary teacher may not be a math major because they are expected to teach all subjects. There is also probably some bias against deep content knowledge because "it's elementary school after all". Secondary Education degrees are subject specific, so secondary education math students would, in fact, be mathematics majors.

kaitai 10y ago
In the US, rules are not so strict. In 2007-08, 71.6 percent of secondary math teachers had been math majors. An additional 16.2 percent were certified in math but did not do a math major. 12.2 percent of secondary math teachers had neither a major nor a certification in math [1]. The number of uncertified non-math-major math teachers is much higher in lower grades, as you point out. [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=58 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=58
impendia 10y ago
>Your elementary teacher may not be a math major In general they won't be, and I wouldn't expect them to be. The subject matter of these classes is usually much simpler than freshman calculus. It's not math per se that I care about here. If, for example, these future elementary teachers disliked reading and displayed the same attitude towards being asked to write critically about a novel, then I would consider that equally disqualifying.

mathattack 10y ago

The limit of learning in a classroom is the teacher. If there's a great teacher, the kids can learn a lot. When the teacher lacks capacity (intelligence, leadership & empathy) then the learning is capped. Outside of people who explicitly want to teach math, the math skills of most K-8 folks I've seen is abysmal.