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> It's a mixed bad in K-12 Your typo is very accurate :-) I would say that our problem in K-12 is a self-perpetuating one. The teachers were taught math badl

> It's a mixed bad in K-12 Your typo is very accurate :-) I would say that our problem in K-12 is a self-perpetuating one. The teachers were taught math badly and so never really learned it (and learned to hate it into the bargain). So then they teach it badly. I'm not sure there's any solution except for tuning the students in to Khan Academy and suchlike programs.

eatbitseveryday 10y ago
> tuning the students in to Khan Academy and suchlike programs I think parents have an enormous role to play in the effectiveness of K-12 education. If they are not very much involved (e.g., enforcing, participating, encouraging) then school isn't valued or prioritized, nor will the average student see how fun many subjects can be to learn (assuming the teacher may not be effective at this). > were taught math badly > teach it badly Just an aside, wouldn't this be expressed as "taught poorly"?
- mathattack 10y ago
  Just an aside, wouldn't this be expressed as "taught poorly"? Blame the English teacher who thunk it badly. :-)
- ScottBurson 10y ago
  But the parents also suffered through incompetent math instruction. Unless they are among the few who loved the subject anyway, they're not going to be able to help. > Just an aside, wouldn't this be expressed as "taught poorly"? I don't think there's anything wrong with "badly" here, and at least one dictionary [0] seems to support me; see esp. sense 2. But "poorly" works just as well. [0] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/badly http://www.dictionary.com/browse/badly
  - eatbitseveryday 10y ago
    > But the parents also suffered through incompetent math instruction. Agreed, but that doesn't mean parents are not able to be encouraging. Their support, I believe, is more valuable than their level of absolute education on the common subjects.
- lithos 10y ago
  The average parent would almost never have time to teach a subject they know, how would they find time to teach something they don't know.
  - jsymolon 10y ago
    Just showing interest and asking what the child is doing is often enough. If the parent can get the child to explain it, that also helps. AKA rubber duck debugging.
    - eatbitseveryday 10y ago
      > Just showing interest and asking what the child is doing is often enough. Yes, this is what I meant to convey.
mathattack 10y ago
I've seen K-5 teachers in Silicon Valley public schools who would struggle with square roots. How can they inspire an interest in math? Ultimately it's on the parents.
impendia 10y ago
>The teachers were taught math badly I'm a college math professor, and I've talked to people who've taught the required "math for elementary ed majors" class. From everything I've heard, it's bleakly depressing. The students (i.e., the future teachers) show little aptitude, curiosity, or work ethic. They just want to be shown algorithms that will always lead them to the correct answer. I haven't taught such a course myself. I hope what I've heard is exaggerated. Liking kids is well and good, but if you're going to be a teacher then you should also like learning. My own elementary school teachers did, and everyone deserves an education as good as the one I got.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  I went to a university that used to be a normal school. I am not sure the math ed. majors "showed little aptitude" ( they got better grades than I did ) nor curiosity, but they were quieter people.
  - impendia 10y ago
    I should clarify that these are the elementary ed students. I've personally taught students training to become high school math teachers, and they have been pretty good.
    - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
      Yessir - my bad.
- germinalphrase 10y ago
  This is likely different state-to-state, but I am aware that in the upper midwest primary education degrees are cross-subject area in focus. Your elementary teacher may not be a math major because they are expected to teach all subjects. There is also probably some bias against deep content knowledge because "it's elementary school after all". Secondary Education degrees are subject specific, so secondary education math students would, in fact, be mathematics majors.

eatbitseveryday 10y ago

> tuning the students in to Khan Academy and suchlike programs I think parents have an enormous role to play in the effectiveness of K-12 education. If they are not very much involved (e.g., enforcing, participating, encouraging) then school isn't valued or prioritized, nor will the average student see how fun many subjects can be to learn (assuming the teacher may not be effective at this). > were taught math badly > teach it badly Just an aside, wouldn't this be expressed as "taught poorly"?

mathattack 10y ago
Just an aside, wouldn't this be expressed as "taught poorly"? Blame the English teacher who thunk it badly. :-)
ScottBurson 10y ago
But the parents also suffered through incompetent math instruction. Unless they are among the few who loved the subject anyway, they're not going to be able to help. > Just an aside, wouldn't this be expressed as "taught poorly"? I don't think there's anything wrong with "badly" here, and at least one dictionary [0] seems to support me; see esp. sense 2. But "poorly" works just as well. [0] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/badly http://www.dictionary.com/browse/badly
- eatbitseveryday 10y ago
  > But the parents also suffered through incompetent math instruction. Agreed, but that doesn't mean parents are not able to be encouraging. Their support, I believe, is more valuable than their level of absolute education on the common subjects.
lithos 10y ago
The average parent would almost never have time to teach a subject they know, how would they find time to teach something they don't know.
- jsymolon 10y ago
  Just showing interest and asking what the child is doing is often enough. If the parent can get the child to explain it, that also helps. AKA rubber duck debugging.
  - eatbitseveryday 10y ago
    > Just showing interest and asking what the child is doing is often enough. Yes, this is what I meant to convey.

mathattack 10y ago

I've seen K-5 teachers in Silicon Valley public schools who would struggle with square roots. How can they inspire an interest in math? Ultimately it's on the parents.

impendia 10y ago

>The teachers were taught math badly I'm a college math professor, and I've talked to people who've taught the required "math for elementary ed majors" class. From everything I've heard, it's bleakly depressing. The students (i.e., the future teachers) show little aptitude, curiosity, or work ethic. They just want to be shown algorithms that will always lead them to the correct answer. I haven't taught such a course myself. I hope what I've heard is exaggerated. Liking kids is well and good, but if you're going to be a teacher then you should also like learning. My own elementary school teachers did, and everyone deserves an education as good as the one I got.

ArkyBeagle 10y ago
I went to a university that used to be a normal school. I am not sure the math ed. majors "showed little aptitude" ( they got better grades than I did ) nor curiosity, but they were quieter people.
- impendia 10y ago
  I should clarify that these are the elementary ed students. I've personally taught students training to become high school math teachers, and they have been pretty good.
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    Yessir - my bad.
germinalphrase 10y ago
This is likely different state-to-state, but I am aware that in the upper midwest primary education degrees are cross-subject area in focus. Your elementary teacher may not be a math major because they are expected to teach all subjects. There is also probably some bias against deep content knowledge because "it's elementary school after all". Secondary Education degrees are subject specific, so secondary education math students would, in fact, be mathematics majors.