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So disappointed. I had my wallet ready to order but this is no different than my current MBP. A half baked touch screen!!! Not worth the $3500 I was going to

So disappointed. I had my wallet ready to order but this is no different than my current MBP. A half baked touch screen!!! Not worth the $3500 I was going to drop on a new MBP. I can't imagine going back to windows because I enjoy the terminal and vim but seriously considering it specially that now I can run bash on windows

brianwawok 10y ago
Ubuntu
jaxn 10y ago
And you can run a VM on a Surface Book with as much RAM as the MBP. That is what I am thinking about doing.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
usaphp 10y ago
Why don't you keep using your current mbp if it has everything you need and runs OS X?
erwinkle 10y ago
I have been developing using the bash shell on Windows. It's got a couple quirks (like a couple second startup time on first startup, or docker issues) but it has performed exceptionally otherwise. I've primarily been doing nodejs development and installing random unix packages I need.
- bane 10y ago
  Out of curiosity have you thought about just running a linux server in a VM and sshing into it from the shell? It seems bizarre I know, but you get a "real" linux then, while still keeping a major OS for software compatibility with user apps.
  - pcwalton 10y ago
    It's faster to not have to have a separate filesystem, and with the new update or cbwin [1] you can launch native Windows apps from the command line. [1]: https://github.com/xilun/cbwin https://github.com/xilun/cbwin
  - dingo_bat 10y ago
    I used to do exactly what you're suggesting. I had a headless vm always running in my laptop and I used to ssh into it. I have turned the vm off since I started using bash on Ubuntu on windows. There are hiccups, but 99% of the time I don't notice that it isn't "real" Linux.
  - erwinkle 10y ago
    I've had 0 need to do that as a web developer, and I much prefer developing on windows 10 than Ubuntu. The bash shell does everything I need it to. The small things that don't work in the bash shell, I can just run the windows version. It basically just boils down to the tools and environment you need, but I have everything I want and need on windows 10 now.
  - nxc182 10y ago
    The point of the Windows Subsystem for Linux is that you don't need to run a VM. It is much more efficient in terms of speed (you're not keeping a whole virtualized Linux kernel and everything else running) but also in terms of energy. I can run bash on my Surface (not pro) 3 without any noticeable hit to battery life and without hurting performance. If 'real linux' is the Linux userspace, then that's what you're getting with Ubuntu - all of 'Linux' except the Linux kernel. WSL allows the NT kernel to handle all of the Linux syscalls. If you consider just the public interface, then WSL is also 'real linux'. Of course this is all theoretical because there are still some bugs here and there. Those are being dealt with and WSL is making great progress.
hhsnopek 10y ago
I find it annoying that people switch OS's and compare them based on feel and "features"... If anything at least say OSX is architecturally better than windows... or get a Chromebook and Croton. This way you can use the terminal and vim, and still get amazing features thru ChromeOS
- smrtinsert 10y ago
  Yeah but shitty screens. The closest I got to programming nirvana was my Samsung Tab S 10.5. Glorious terminal in Super Amoled glory. It pains me to use any desktop panel. It's just old at this point, a little low and small. I would probably go ipad if I was interested in rekindling my Apple relationship (which I'm not since they continue to screw users it seems)
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    There was the chrome pixel, with high-res display, but that died off.
- criddell 10y ago
  > I find it annoying that people switch OS's and compare them based on feel and "features" I think it's interesting. It implies that the important software packages are now available everywhere. If there were key applications you needed, you probably wouldn't switch.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
omribahumi 10y ago
Anyone tried the Windows 10 Linux Subsystem?
- wasd 10y ago
  I do. Support is definitely there for me but I mostly do Ruby/javascript. YMMV.
- pcwalton 10y ago
  I love it, personally. I installed it and VcXsrv and put a link to 'bash.exe -c "DISPLAY=:0 xfce4-terminal"' on the panel. gVim on Linux works great for code editing.
- PleaseHelpMe 10y ago
  Yes. It is great. Issues are handle very nicely via their github Repo so you dont feel left out while using it. It's currently in Beta but most of the things that I use (python3 ,pip, npm...) work like a charm
clvx 10y ago
Depending on your use the XPS 13 Dev Edition might fit your needs. I got one recently, and I can say Dell has put a lot of effort in making a good working laptop. It works pretty well with Dell's dock station, but keep in mind the WD15 dongle just doesn't work at all(at least for now).
douche 10y ago
It's really quite absurd to spend $3500 on a laptop. That's baffling. That's more than the down-payment on my pickup truck. That's more than we paid for the last two blade servers at work, that have a combined 96 cores and, I think, 288 GB of RAM. That's just a little less than the seven laptops I have owned in my entire life.
- criddell 10y ago
  The laptop is a tool that many people use all day everyday. If the machine lasts you three years, that's about $5 per day which is pretty affordable. If playing with software is your hobby, then spending $3500 over a couple of years on your hobby isn't outrageous. I know people that play guitar for fun and they wouldn't think twice about dropping that much on a used guitar.
- AvenueIngres 10y ago
  My laptop is my primary tool I used in my job, which allow me to support my family and myself. I spend around fifty hours a week using it. Investing in a good tool, when there is a guaranteed pay-off and productivity (or living quality) increase isn't unreasonable at all.
- toyg 10y ago
  I've said it elsewhere - the problem isn't the price, but rather that what all that money buys you is very little compared to the competition. Not just "a bit worse for the same money" or a "a bit better for a bit more money", but rather "a bit worse for a ton of extra money". That's unacceptable.

brianwawok 10y ago

Ubuntu

jaxn 10y ago

And you can run a VM on a Surface Book with as much RAM as the MBP. That is what I am thinking about doing.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

usaphp 10y ago

Why don't you keep using your current mbp if it has everything you need and runs OS X?

erwinkle 10y ago

I have been developing using the bash shell on Windows. It's got a couple quirks (like a couple second startup time on first startup, or docker issues) but it has performed exceptionally otherwise. I've primarily been doing nodejs development and installing random unix packages I need.

bane 10y ago
Out of curiosity have you thought about just running a linux server in a VM and sshing into it from the shell? It seems bizarre I know, but you get a "real" linux then, while still keeping a major OS for software compatibility with user apps.
- pcwalton 10y ago
  It's faster to not have to have a separate filesystem, and with the new update or cbwin [1] you can launch native Windows apps from the command line. [1]: https://github.com/xilun/cbwin https://github.com/xilun/cbwin
- dingo_bat 10y ago
  I used to do exactly what you're suggesting. I had a headless vm always running in my laptop and I used to ssh into it. I have turned the vm off since I started using bash on Ubuntu on windows. There are hiccups, but 99% of the time I don't notice that it isn't "real" Linux.
- erwinkle 10y ago
  I've had 0 need to do that as a web developer, and I much prefer developing on windows 10 than Ubuntu. The bash shell does everything I need it to. The small things that don't work in the bash shell, I can just run the windows version. It basically just boils down to the tools and environment you need, but I have everything I want and need on windows 10 now.
- nxc182 10y ago
  The point of the Windows Subsystem for Linux is that you don't need to run a VM. It is much more efficient in terms of speed (you're not keeping a whole virtualized Linux kernel and everything else running) but also in terms of energy. I can run bash on my Surface (not pro) 3 without any noticeable hit to battery life and without hurting performance. If 'real linux' is the Linux userspace, then that's what you're getting with Ubuntu - all of 'Linux' except the Linux kernel. WSL allows the NT kernel to handle all of the Linux syscalls. If you consider just the public interface, then WSL is also 'real linux'. Of course this is all theoretical because there are still some bugs here and there. Those are being dealt with and WSL is making great progress.

hhsnopek 10y ago

I find it annoying that people switch OS's and compare them based on feel and "features"... If anything at least say OSX is architecturally better than windows... or get a Chromebook and Croton. This way you can use the terminal and vim, and still get amazing features thru ChromeOS

smrtinsert 10y ago
Yeah but shitty screens. The closest I got to programming nirvana was my Samsung Tab S 10.5. Glorious terminal in Super Amoled glory. It pains me to use any desktop panel. It's just old at this point, a little low and small. I would probably go ipad if I was interested in rekindling my Apple relationship (which I'm not since they continue to screw users it seems)
- paulddraper 10y ago
  There was the chrome pixel, with high-res display, but that died off.
criddell 10y ago
> I find it annoying that people switch OS's and compare them based on feel and "features" I think it's interesting. It implies that the important software packages are now available everywhere. If there were key applications you needed, you probably wouldn't switch.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

omribahumi 10y ago

Anyone tried the Windows 10 Linux Subsystem?

wasd 10y ago
I do. Support is definitely there for me but I mostly do Ruby/javascript. YMMV.
pcwalton 10y ago
I love it, personally. I installed it and VcXsrv and put a link to 'bash.exe -c "DISPLAY=:0 xfce4-terminal"' on the panel. gVim on Linux works great for code editing.
PleaseHelpMe 10y ago
Yes. It is great. Issues are handle very nicely via their github Repo so you dont feel left out while using it. It's currently in Beta but most of the things that I use (python3 ,pip, npm...) work like a charm

clvx 10y ago

Depending on your use the XPS 13 Dev Edition might fit your needs. I got one recently, and I can say Dell has put a lot of effort in making a good working laptop. It works pretty well with Dell's dock station, but keep in mind the WD15 dongle just doesn't work at all(at least for now).

douche 10y ago

It's really quite absurd to spend $3500 on a laptop. That's baffling. That's more than the down-payment on my pickup truck. That's more than we paid for the last two blade servers at work, that have a combined 96 cores and, I think, 288 GB of RAM. That's just a little less than the seven laptops I have owned in my entire life.

criddell 10y ago
The laptop is a tool that many people use all day everyday. If the machine lasts you three years, that's about $5 per day which is pretty affordable. If playing with software is your hobby, then spending $3500 over a couple of years on your hobby isn't outrageous. I know people that play guitar for fun and they wouldn't think twice about dropping that much on a used guitar.
AvenueIngres 10y ago
My laptop is my primary tool I used in my job, which allow me to support my family and myself. I spend around fifty hours a week using it. Investing in a good tool, when there is a guaranteed pay-off and productivity (or living quality) increase isn't unreasonable at all.
toyg 10y ago
I've said it elsewhere - the problem isn't the price, but rather that what all that money buys you is very little compared to the competition. Not just "a bit worse for the same money" or a "a bit better for a bit more money", but rather "a bit worse for a ton of extra money". That's unacceptable.