4 ms·

> Academic research jobs, despite poor pay and conditions, are still some of the hardest positions to get. The demand for those jobs far, far outstrips supply.

> Academic research jobs, despite poor pay and conditions, are still some of the hardest positions to get. The demand for those jobs far, far outstrips supply. Well that's exactly the problem. We as a society have decided that our brightest minds should be working in finance. I think that's outrageous, and that we should be utilizing their minds for the greater good instead. In other words, we need to increase the supply of these research jobs, and make them more attractive then working in finance. Of course certain fields of finance benefit society. That doesn't mean their talents wouldn't be better off to society elsewhere. Also, certain jobs like proprietary trading are the equivalent of gambling and on a net basis don't make society any better off.

tikhonj 10y ago
> In other words, we need to increase the supply of these research jobs, and make them more attractive then working in finance. That's a fair summary. My core point was that it's far more a matter of constrained research positions rather than finance being so alluring. It's not hard to make a research position more attractive to most bright minds than finance: you just have to offer autonomy, a bit of prestige and working conditions that aren't absolutely terrible. > certain jobs like proprietary trading are the equivalent of gambling The proprietary trading firms I'm familiar tend to be risk averse and specialize in things like market making and arbitrage. This is probably some of the most unambiguously useful activity on the markets: it's companies like that that make things like ETFs and less liquid securities work efficiently. Without market makers, various useful but niche securities would be significantly more painful to trade in practice.
- JDiculous 10y ago
  I agree. Regarding prop trading, prop trading itself is the betting of the firm's own money for profit. I equated it to gambling because that's what it is. On a net basis, this doesn't really benefit society because it's essentially a zero sum game. Market making on the other hand does benefit society by providing/ensuring liquidity.
  - consz 10y ago
    Most market makers are prop trading firms, though -- I think it's incorrect to act like these classifications aren't highly correlated.
Analemma_ 10y ago
> We as a society have decided that our brightest minds should be working in finance "society" hasn't decided anything. Under capitalism, money flows towards where it is allocated most efficiently and gets the highest rate of return, which is apparently to employ researchers in the finance sector. If you have an issue with that, take it up with capitalism. > we need to increase the supply of these research jobs, and make them more attractive then working in finance. Barring the revolution I vaguely implied above, these two things would require lots of money and lots of money, respectively. Have fun asking for it in 2016's political environment.
- JDiculous 10y ago
  You're being pedantic. We our the ones who govern ourselves and dictate our own economic system, and this system is responsible for our current situation. We don't necessarily have to move off capitalism. We simply need to address the flaws of capitalism, say by increasing research funding or not bailing out large investment banks every time they make awful bets.
user5994461 10y ago
> our brightest minds should be working in finance The amount of people who recommend that is staggering. Lesson learnt: I need to get into finance...
ArkyBeagle 10y ago
We didn't decide it; it just happened. The intro to "The Big Short" covers this quite well - Lewis S. Ranieri, all that. but what can I say? We're a culture that in 1969 went to the moon, but by 1974/5 we were cutting everything we could.
gozur88 10y ago
>Well that's exactly the problem. We as a society have decided that our brightest minds should be working in finance. That's not it at all. The best and brightest people have decided what they'd really love to do is take a tenured position at a prestigious university and do research. Since finance companies that need really smart people can't offer that kind of life they have to compensate with cash. This says nothing about what "we as a society" have decided. What this tells us is finance is boring.
- jawilson2 10y ago
  > The best and brightest people have decided what they'd really love to do is take a tenured position at a prestigious university and do research. Except we are slowly getting rid of tenure, and "that kind of life" is in no way glamorous for 99% of researchers. You have to be passionate about research to the detriment of nearly every other aspect of your life, or independently wealthy, so live comfortably (again, for most people).

tikhonj 10y ago

> In other words, we need to increase the supply of these research jobs, and make them more attractive then working in finance. That's a fair summary. My core point was that it's far more a matter of constrained research positions rather than finance being so alluring. It's not hard to make a research position more attractive to most bright minds than finance: you just have to offer autonomy, a bit of prestige and working conditions that aren't absolutely terrible. > certain jobs like proprietary trading are the equivalent of gambling The proprietary trading firms I'm familiar tend to be risk averse and specialize in things like market making and arbitrage. This is probably some of the most unambiguously useful activity on the markets: it's companies like that that make things like ETFs and less liquid securities work efficiently. Without market makers, various useful but niche securities would be significantly more painful to trade in practice.

JDiculous 10y ago
I agree. Regarding prop trading, prop trading itself is the betting of the firm's own money for profit. I equated it to gambling because that's what it is. On a net basis, this doesn't really benefit society because it's essentially a zero sum game. Market making on the other hand does benefit society by providing/ensuring liquidity.
- consz 10y ago
  Most market makers are prop trading firms, though -- I think it's incorrect to act like these classifications aren't highly correlated.

Analemma_ 10y ago

> We as a society have decided that our brightest minds should be working in finance "society" hasn't decided anything. Under capitalism, money flows towards where it is allocated most efficiently and gets the highest rate of return, which is apparently to employ researchers in the finance sector. If you have an issue with that, take it up with capitalism. > we need to increase the supply of these research jobs, and make them more attractive then working in finance. Barring the revolution I vaguely implied above, these two things would require lots of money and lots of money, respectively. Have fun asking for it in 2016's political environment.

JDiculous 10y ago
You're being pedantic. We our the ones who govern ourselves and dictate our own economic system, and this system is responsible for our current situation. We don't necessarily have to move off capitalism. We simply need to address the flaws of capitalism, say by increasing research funding or not bailing out large investment banks every time they make awful bets.

user5994461 10y ago

> our brightest minds should be working in finance The amount of people who recommend that is staggering. Lesson learnt: I need to get into finance...

ArkyBeagle 10y ago

We didn't decide it; it just happened. The intro to "The Big Short" covers this quite well - Lewis S. Ranieri, all that. but what can I say? We're a culture that in 1969 went to the moon, but by 1974/5 we were cutting everything we could.

gozur88 10y ago

>Well that's exactly the problem. We as a society have decided that our brightest minds should be working in finance. That's not it at all. The best and brightest people have decided what they'd really love to do is take a tenured position at a prestigious university and do research. Since finance companies that need really smart people can't offer that kind of life they have to compensate with cash. This says nothing about what "we as a society" have decided. What this tells us is finance is boring.

jawilson2 10y ago
> The best and brightest people have decided what they'd really love to do is take a tenured position at a prestigious university and do research. Except we are slowly getting rid of tenure, and "that kind of life" is in no way glamorous for 99% of researchers. You have to be passionate about research to the detriment of nearly every other aspect of your life, or independently wealthy, so live comfortably (again, for most people).