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Everyone's bought into the bullshit that ads give us stuff for free when it in fact it costs all of us a LOT MORE. Rather than dismiss my claim as lunacy, I beg

Everyone's bought into the bullshit that ads give us stuff for free when it in fact it costs all of us a LOT MORE. Rather than dismiss my claim as lunacy, I beg you to take the time to read my explanation (and reply with rational counterarguments if you disagree): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8585237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8585237 Our industry has made a selfish deal with the devil in the name of getting rich quick: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10047706 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10047706 On our failure to focus on finding alternate solutions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9961761 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9961761

sanswork 10y ago
I'm not sure what your goal is? Advertising is never going away because there will always be companies that want to increase the visibility of their products and are willing to pay for it. How that advertising is implemented will continue to shift overtime but it's always going to be there. Your second post for example is advertising for people to contact you about some project you want to start.
- eevilspock 10y ago
  > Advertising is never going away See fowlerpower's originally top ranked comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12805998 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12805998) and then see my reply to it (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12806687 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12806687). And no, my second post is not advertising by any reasonable definition, and certainly not the meaning of "ad" in "ad blocker". By defining "advertising" so broadly that in includes all announcements and solicitations, such that even a love letter is considered advertising, you have "won" the argument by rendering the term meaningless. I believe there is a technical term for such specious reasoning, such as there is for "straw man" arguments, but I can't remember it. Sure, advertising will always exist, but it can be made mostly if not entirely irrelevant. Just as littering will always exist, but is now pretty minimal because anti-littering is now deeply ingrained in our culture. That's what cultural evolution is all about: overcoming our base natures.
  - sanswork 10y ago
    Your reply to his comment is pointless. You're equating advertising to slavery? Going after the shock factor to make your point. Sounds a bit like the click bait you rally against. It is advertising you are telling people about a service you are working on and soliciting participation. That's not using a broad definition of advertising by any means. Advertising will always exist because there will always people people who want to tell others about their products and services and there will always be people who want to find out about new products and services. How do you propose people find new products and services in your imagined future without advertising?
    - eevilspock 10y ago
      > Your reply to his comment is pointless. No, you missed the point. I'm criticizing his "Advertising is something that has existed for at least 100 plus years." and therefor "is here to stay" logical fallacy. No, your definition is so broad as to be meaningless. What do I proposed? For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10398290 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10398290. But more importantly go back to my "On our failure to focus on finding alternate solutions" link above. This website and the culture it worships touts its creative and problem solving ability. So it is not just a moral failure but also one of imagination. "The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. That sucks." – Jeff Hammerbacher, fmr. Manager of Facebook Data Team, founder of Cloudera And honestly, I believe you are so armored against my ideas, that you haven't given them (my comments here and my links) a truly honest, reflective read. You keep challenging me but you haven't answered all of my points or challenges. jrcii's comment's being down-voted to oblivion represents how upset people here get about anything that challenges their golden goose. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” – Upton Sinclair
      - sanswork 10y ago
        >No, your definition is so broad as to be meaningless. Advertising: the act or practice of calling public attention to one's product, service, need, etc. As in "eevilspock was advertising their new project to rid the world of advertising". So how do people find the collaborative filtering systems in your proposed world without advertising? All the alternates lead back to advertising. >You keep challenging me but you haven't answered all of my points or challenges. What points or challenges? You have just posted quotes and said that everyone is lazy for not thinking of a world without advertising. As long as there are people with services and people who want services there will always be advertising.
- jrcii 10y ago
  >Advertising is never going away Tell that to Sao Paulo! In a perfect world visibility would come from word of mouth. But alas, we are stuck being constantly bombarded with attempts to brainwash us into feeling familiar with the brands of huge corporations and encouraging us to consume.

sanswork 10y ago

I'm not sure what your goal is? Advertising is never going away because there will always be companies that want to increase the visibility of their products and are willing to pay for it. How that advertising is implemented will continue to shift overtime but it's always going to be there. Your second post for example is advertising for people to contact you about some project you want to start.

eevilspock 10y ago
> Advertising is never going away See fowlerpower's originally top ranked comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12805998 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12805998) and then see my reply to it (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12806687 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12806687). And no, my second post is not advertising by any reasonable definition, and certainly not the meaning of "ad" in "ad blocker". By defining "advertising" so broadly that in includes all announcements and solicitations, such that even a love letter is considered advertising, you have "won" the argument by rendering the term meaningless. I believe there is a technical term for such specious reasoning, such as there is for "straw man" arguments, but I can't remember it. Sure, advertising will always exist, but it can be made mostly if not entirely irrelevant. Just as littering will always exist, but is now pretty minimal because anti-littering is now deeply ingrained in our culture. That's what cultural evolution is all about: overcoming our base natures.
- sanswork 10y ago
  Your reply to his comment is pointless. You're equating advertising to slavery? Going after the shock factor to make your point. Sounds a bit like the click bait you rally against. It is advertising you are telling people about a service you are working on and soliciting participation. That's not using a broad definition of advertising by any means. Advertising will always exist because there will always people people who want to tell others about their products and services and there will always be people who want to find out about new products and services. How do you propose people find new products and services in your imagined future without advertising?
  - eevilspock 10y ago
    > Your reply to his comment is pointless. No, you missed the point. I'm criticizing his "Advertising is something that has existed for at least 100 plus years." and therefor "is here to stay" logical fallacy. No, your definition is so broad as to be meaningless. What do I proposed? For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10398290 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10398290. But more importantly go back to my "On our failure to focus on finding alternate solutions" link above. This website and the culture it worships touts its creative and problem solving ability. So it is not just a moral failure but also one of imagination. "The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. That sucks." – Jeff Hammerbacher, fmr. Manager of Facebook Data Team, founder of Cloudera And honestly, I believe you are so armored against my ideas, that you haven't given them (my comments here and my links) a truly honest, reflective read. You keep challenging me but you haven't answered all of my points or challenges. jrcii's comment's being down-voted to oblivion represents how upset people here get about anything that challenges their golden goose. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” – Upton Sinclair
    - sanswork 10y ago
      >No, your definition is so broad as to be meaningless. Advertising: the act or practice of calling public attention to one's product, service, need, etc. As in "eevilspock was advertising their new project to rid the world of advertising". So how do people find the collaborative filtering systems in your proposed world without advertising? All the alternates lead back to advertising. >You keep challenging me but you haven't answered all of my points or challenges. What points or challenges? You have just posted quotes and said that everyone is lazy for not thinking of a world without advertising. As long as there are people with services and people who want services there will always be advertising.
jrcii 10y ago
>Advertising is never going away Tell that to Sao Paulo! In a perfect world visibility would come from word of mouth. But alas, we are stuck being constantly bombarded with attempts to brainwash us into feeling familiar with the brands of huge corporations and encouraging us to consume.