5 ms·

It’s Not a Startup Visa, but It’s Close

52 points by tokenadult 10y ago

dorianm 10y ago
Doesn't the E-2 via already covers that? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-2_visa https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-2_visa What we need is visa for employees, those who invest in the US can already get the E-2.
- tlb 10y ago
  E-2 requires a large ($500k) personal investment. Many of the best founders don't have that kind of money themselves.
  - ecesena 10y ago
    In my experience, you need to prove that you spent enough money (say in the order of 100k$). Spent, not just invested -- but the investment can be "just" that 100k$.
  - HistoryInAction 10y ago
    You're thinking of the EB-5 green card perhaps
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - dorianm 10y ago
    See here for details on the amount: http://e2visalawyer.net/substantial_investment.htm http://e2visalawyer.net/substantial_investment.htm It starts at $50k.
    - kintamanimatt 10y ago
      A lot depends on the embassy. Some seem to have unofficial investment amounts that exceed this. IIRC, anecdotally, the London embassy has a minimum investment requirement of $200k for E-2 which may have risen since I last looked.
- mattmanser 10y ago
  No, that's for investors. This is for founders.
  - ecesena 10y ago
    E-2 is for the company. The company becomes E-2 approved, and you can get visas for founders and "management", i.e. basically everybody in a 5 people startup.
WWKong 10y ago
13.5 yrs and still in line for green card. I guess working a regular tech job and enabling the companies to compete and succeed, adding many many millions in revenue, creating jobs etc. is not as sexy as surviving on ramen and raising funds for the next app.
- CalRobert 10y ago
  Perhaps another country would benefit from your expertise and can offer you a better place to live?
  - WWKong 10y ago
    Considering everything (culture, kids' future, opportunities, investment, social circle etc.) this is still the best place for me. So yes, it is annoying and ridiculous, but I like it here. Or maybe it is me rationalizing the situation in my head.
  - swuecho 10y ago
    If you stay some places for a long period, it is not as easy as you think to move, not even to another country. For young people, I strongly suggest to look for other opportunities. If you look at the value and price for US visa, probably price is the highest in history, the value certainly not.(my opinion. I am Chinese.) For the visa reported in the news, If you look at it carefully, it is joke.
    - cloudjacker 10y ago
      > If you look at the value and price for US visa, probably price is the highest in history $500,000? most of which can be an investment you get back later? Nah not the highest, pretty much on par with other countries that sell residency and citizenship The value is also pretty much on par, IMO, with European programs.
      - swuecho 10y ago
        the value I am comparing is not to European programs. (they are worse, I think). American Visa vs Stay in China. of course, it is very personal. even in chinese, the opinions can be the opposite.
tkinom 10y ago
Looks like one can get 6 engineers (or persons) and each put up $60K and open shop anywhere in US as startup founders (at lease for 2-3 years), true? The bar is a bit low....
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
impish19 10y ago
There are a few things to note about this parole. I'm copying this from a post I submitted to HN a few days ago[1]: 1. Your startup would have to have raised $345k from 'qualified investors' or $100k from federal/state grants (difficult for bootstrappers to leverage this) 2. Should have created 10 jobs for Americans in 2 years 3. This parole will be granted for 2 years, and then extended by another 3, but after that there's no provision to let founders stay. 4. You need to have at least 15% stake in your company (which can be easy initially but could get diluted going ahead, specially with multiple founders) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12624180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12624180 (edit: formatting)
- ecesena 10y ago
  Wow, that seems really bad compared to E-2. The major drawback is that you need to enough time for point 2., if I read it correctly. How can you work for 2 years to grow your team without a visa? Plus, 10 Americans in 2 years with 345k$ doesn't seem very realistic, but maybe someone with more stats (e.g., from YC) can chime in.
  - impish19 10y ago
    IMHO the best deal for immigrant founders right now is that if you're in the fortunate position where your spouse has their I-140, then that'll qualify you for an EAD that you can use to start your startup. The terrible thing about that is that puts considerable onus on your spouse to stay employed.
cjbenedikt 10y ago
Interesting language: "parole"! Usually reserved for prisoners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parole Makes it pretty clear what the thought process behind it is like.
- impish19 10y ago
  They didn't choose to call this program a 'parole'. The DHS already had statutory 'parole' authority that they're kind of hacking to let entrepreneurs use it because it's a pain in the ass to get new reforms fly by the Congress.
  - HistoryInAction 10y ago
    That's correct. Not the best branding, but I'm sure the White House did what it could.
coolsank 10y ago
I'm a bit confused here. Does one have to be in the US and start a company to be provided with a parole status as per this rule? Or all of the requirements that are listed here need to be done while being outside the United States after which a parole will be granted if the requirements are met.
- HistoryInAction 10y ago
  You can meet the requirements in the country on the B-1 business tourist visa, visa waiver, or OPT status as an F-1 holder, but to activate parole, you need to do so outside the country. IANAL
ones_and_zeros 10y ago
That's a pretty slick trick I've started to see industry take advantage of where they use the cap exempt status of universities to hire H-1Bs. The H-1Bs are employees of the university but are directed by the private corporation, which owns all of the work. There is an extra bonus as well because you can really play with the job title in order to pay the employee even less since the government sets the rate for "researches" much lower than a run of the mill software developer. I wouldn't be surprised if the folks coming in under this "entrepreneur" based H-1B loophole are being encouraged to work for a select few employers "while they get their startup off the ground".
- HistoryInAction 10y ago
  We're doing strict self-policing so that this isn't the case. While founders are getting their startups off the ground, they're working 8-10 hours a week as mentors at the center for entrepreneurship. It's just too much of a risk to flout the clearly defined congressional cap, and since we can help founders, we want to ensure we can continue to do so as we scale rather than calling down the wrath of Congress.
  - ones_and_zeros 10y ago
    I'm not sure you have much to worry about, congress is in full support of expanding the H-1B system and there isn't anyone to investigate abuse any way outside of the most obvious violations. Curious, what wage category are you using in the H-1B applications? What level?
    - HistoryInAction 10y ago
      Depends on the person and their academic backgrounds. The positions are specifically designed so that the students can benefit from that person's specific expertise and experience.
  - clifanatic 10y ago
    > We're doing strict self-policing so that this isn't the case. HAHAHAHAHAHA > It's just too much of a risk to flout the clearly defined congressional cap, HAHAHAHAHAHA > calling down the wrath of Congress. HAHAHAHAHAHA
HistoryInAction 10y ago
I'm Craig, quoted in the article as the executive director of the Global EIR Coalition, which is what Nigel is using and is soon to be in the Bay Area as a visa option. Happy to answer any questions folks have about the cap exemption and the process we're setting up.
- sogen 10y ago
  about the process, how long does it take? what's the acceptance rate?
  - HistoryInAction 10y ago
    University makes the call. If you're pre-funded, you'll work as a part-time mentor, 8-10 hours a week; post-funded, 100% of your time for your startup which has to move on/near campus. 50-70 days from university handshake to visa in hand. About 10% right now
    - sogen 10y ago
      Thanks!

52 points by tokenadult 10y ago

Doesn't the E-2 via already covers that? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-2_visa https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-2_visa What we need is visa for employees, those who invest in the US can already get the E-2.

tlb 10y ago
E-2 requires a large ($500k) personal investment. Many of the best founders don't have that kind of money themselves.
- ecesena 10y ago
  In my experience, you need to prove that you spent enough money (say in the order of 100k$). Spent, not just invested -- but the investment can be "just" that 100k$.
- HistoryInAction 10y ago
  You're thinking of the EB-5 green card perhaps
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- dorianm 10y ago
  See here for details on the amount: http://e2visalawyer.net/substantial_investment.htm http://e2visalawyer.net/substantial_investment.htm It starts at $50k.
  - kintamanimatt 10y ago
    A lot depends on the embassy. Some seem to have unofficial investment amounts that exceed this. IIRC, anecdotally, the London embassy has a minimum investment requirement of $200k for E-2 which may have risen since I last looked.
mattmanser 10y ago
No, that's for investors. This is for founders.
- ecesena 10y ago
  E-2 is for the company. The company becomes E-2 approved, and you can get visas for founders and "management", i.e. basically everybody in a 5 people startup.

WWKong 10y ago

13.5 yrs and still in line for green card. I guess working a regular tech job and enabling the companies to compete and succeed, adding many many millions in revenue, creating jobs etc. is not as sexy as surviving on ramen and raising funds for the next app.

CalRobert 10y ago
Perhaps another country would benefit from your expertise and can offer you a better place to live?
- WWKong 10y ago
  Considering everything (culture, kids' future, opportunities, investment, social circle etc.) this is still the best place for me. So yes, it is annoying and ridiculous, but I like it here. Or maybe it is me rationalizing the situation in my head.
- swuecho 10y ago
  If you stay some places for a long period, it is not as easy as you think to move, not even to another country. For young people, I strongly suggest to look for other opportunities. If you look at the value and price for US visa, probably price is the highest in history, the value certainly not.(my opinion. I am Chinese.) For the visa reported in the news, If you look at it carefully, it is joke.
  - cloudjacker 10y ago
    > If you look at the value and price for US visa, probably price is the highest in history $500,000? most of which can be an investment you get back later? Nah not the highest, pretty much on par with other countries that sell residency and citizenship The value is also pretty much on par, IMO, with European programs.
    - swuecho 10y ago
      the value I am comparing is not to European programs. (they are worse, I think). American Visa vs Stay in China. of course, it is very personal. even in chinese, the opinions can be the opposite.

tkinom 10y ago

Looks like one can get 6 engineers (or persons) and each put up $60K and open shop anywhere in US as startup founders (at lease for 2-3 years), true? The bar is a bit low....

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

impish19 10y ago

There are a few things to note about this parole. I'm copying this from a post I submitted to HN a few days ago[1]: 1. Your startup would have to have raised $345k from 'qualified investors' or $100k from federal/state grants (difficult for bootstrappers to leverage this) 2. Should have created 10 jobs for Americans in 2 years 3. This parole will be granted for 2 years, and then extended by another 3, but after that there's no provision to let founders stay. 4. You need to have at least 15% stake in your company (which can be easy initially but could get diluted going ahead, specially with multiple founders) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12624180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12624180 (edit: formatting)

ecesena 10y ago
Wow, that seems really bad compared to E-2. The major drawback is that you need to enough time for point 2., if I read it correctly. How can you work for 2 years to grow your team without a visa? Plus, 10 Americans in 2 years with 345k$ doesn't seem very realistic, but maybe someone with more stats (e.g., from YC) can chime in.
- impish19 10y ago
  IMHO the best deal for immigrant founders right now is that if you're in the fortunate position where your spouse has their I-140, then that'll qualify you for an EAD that you can use to start your startup. The terrible thing about that is that puts considerable onus on your spouse to stay employed.

cjbenedikt 10y ago

Interesting language: "parole"! Usually reserved for prisoners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parole Makes it pretty clear what the thought process behind it is like.

impish19 10y ago
They didn't choose to call this program a 'parole'. The DHS already had statutory 'parole' authority that they're kind of hacking to let entrepreneurs use it because it's a pain in the ass to get new reforms fly by the Congress.
- HistoryInAction 10y ago
  That's correct. Not the best branding, but I'm sure the White House did what it could.

coolsank 10y ago

I'm a bit confused here. Does one have to be in the US and start a company to be provided with a parole status as per this rule? Or all of the requirements that are listed here need to be done while being outside the United States after which a parole will be granted if the requirements are met.

HistoryInAction 10y ago
You can meet the requirements in the country on the B-1 business tourist visa, visa waiver, or OPT status as an F-1 holder, but to activate parole, you need to do so outside the country. IANAL

ones_and_zeros 10y ago

That's a pretty slick trick I've started to see industry take advantage of where they use the cap exempt status of universities to hire H-1Bs. The H-1Bs are employees of the university but are directed by the private corporation, which owns all of the work. There is an extra bonus as well because you can really play with the job title in order to pay the employee even less since the government sets the rate for "researches" much lower than a run of the mill software developer. I wouldn't be surprised if the folks coming in under this "entrepreneur" based H-1B loophole are being encouraged to work for a select few employers "while they get their startup off the ground".

HistoryInAction 10y ago
We're doing strict self-policing so that this isn't the case. While founders are getting their startups off the ground, they're working 8-10 hours a week as mentors at the center for entrepreneurship. It's just too much of a risk to flout the clearly defined congressional cap, and since we can help founders, we want to ensure we can continue to do so as we scale rather than calling down the wrath of Congress.
- ones_and_zeros 10y ago
  I'm not sure you have much to worry about, congress is in full support of expanding the H-1B system and there isn't anyone to investigate abuse any way outside of the most obvious violations. Curious, what wage category are you using in the H-1B applications? What level?
  - HistoryInAction 10y ago
    Depends on the person and their academic backgrounds. The positions are specifically designed so that the students can benefit from that person's specific expertise and experience.
- clifanatic 10y ago
  > We're doing strict self-policing so that this isn't the case. HAHAHAHAHAHA > It's just too much of a risk to flout the clearly defined congressional cap, HAHAHAHAHAHA > calling down the wrath of Congress. HAHAHAHAHAHA

HistoryInAction 10y ago

I'm Craig, quoted in the article as the executive director of the Global EIR Coalition, which is what Nigel is using and is soon to be in the Bay Area as a visa option. Happy to answer any questions folks have about the cap exemption and the process we're setting up.

sogen 10y ago
about the process, how long does it take? what's the acceptance rate?
- HistoryInAction 10y ago
  University makes the call. If you're pre-funded, you'll work as a part-time mentor, 8-10 hours a week; post-funded, 100% of your time for your startup which has to move on/near campus. 50-70 days from university handshake to visa in hand. About 10% right now
  - sogen 10y ago
    Thanks!