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We have about 150+ engineers with Macs - and precisely zero of them asked for a desktop versus a MacBook Pro. Consider the possibility that your statement, "Th

We have about 150+ engineers with Macs - and precisely zero of them asked for a desktop versus a MacBook Pro. Consider the possibility that your statement, "The laptop is fine for fooling around" is a fairly personal experience that isn't necessarily representative of the broad population.

douche 10y ago
Of course it was a personal opinion. Few are lucky enough to have as nice a setup as I do. That people get anything done at all on these little midget laptops is, quite frankly, amazing to me.
- teacup50 10y ago
  > That people get anything done at all on these little midget laptops is, quite frankly, amazing to me. Simply lacking screen real estate reduces available working memory that would be used to focus on a coding task. Given how this empirically impacts work quality, I'm pretty amazed how younger tech companies have pushed employees in this direction. It's not all that different from the open office trend.
  - Consultant32452 10y ago
    As with all matters of psychology, YMMV. But it's definitely not for everyone. http://www.pcworld.com/article/251521/when_two_monitors_arent_enough.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/251521/when_two_monitors_aren... >"People dramatically overestimate their ability to manage their environment," Meyer says, adding that in some ways, using multiple monitors to keep all sorts of data visible is analogous to using a cell phone while driving.
    - teacup50 10y ago
      Well, sure, but isn't it rather obvious that using resources to engage in distracting non-work activities is detrimental to work efficiency? I've got 6880x1440 worth of curved display on my desk, and obviously, watching Netflix, browsing Facebook, or otherwise distracting myself with one of them would be a net productivity loss.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
nightski 10y ago
You made them make a choice regarding portability. They chose portability. That doesn't mean it was the most productive or efficient choice.
teacup50 10y ago
Studies show that it's true for the broad population, too. More screen real estate and faster processing directly and significantly impacts focus and working memory. Perhaps your employees aren't perfectly rational actors whose incentive is to maximize the utility of their tools while at the office? For example, there seems to be correlation between 1) wanting to keep git work local to a workstation and not push anywhere with public visibility, and 2) wanting to use a laptop so you can bring that local repository state with you. Neither desires are necessarily aligned with what benefits the company (or the quality of work), but they do drive a laptop preference.
- astrange 10y ago
  My experience with multiple large monitors is my eyes got drier, the room got hotter and I never found anything useful to put on them.
  - teacup50 10y ago
    Doesn't sound like much of a controlled study. Selection bias may have played a part :P Even just having a physically larger display that fills your FOV appears to improve spatial task and memory performance: http://research-srv.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/desney/publications/TOCHI2006-LargeDisplays.pdf http://research-srv.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/desney/pub... From another study (http://pro.sagepub.com/content/56/1/1506.abstract http://pro.sagepub.com/content/56/1/1506.abstract) on actual satisfaction (not open access, so quoting some key bits): First, they provide a good summary of previous findings: "Previous research has demonstrated productivity increases for users performing tasks on larger or multiple screens. For instance, a 9% productivity increase was noted while using wider screens (15” flat panel vs. 46.5” curved screen) (Czerwinski, et al., 2003)." "Similarly, a 3.1% increase was noted using dual screens over a single screen (Poder, Godbout, & Bellemare, 2007). Task success has been found to increase for tasks performed on 4 – 17” monitors vs. a single 17” monitor (Truemper, et al., 2008). Likewise, tasks were performed faster and with less workload while using 2 – 17” monitors over a single 17” monitor (Kang & Stasko, 2007)." "Other studies have noted increased window interaction and open windows while using multi-monitor configurations (Hutchings, Smith, Meyers, Czerwinski, & Robertson, 2004)." "Issues with single monitor use have been well documented. Generally, higher mental workload, more window switching, repositioning, resizing, inadvertent opening, and closing of files have been associated with single small monitor usage (Czerwinski, et al., 2003). Users generally perceive small single monitors as requiring more workload (Grudin, 2001; Hashizume, Kurosu, Kaneko, 2007)." Second, their own findings: "Participants felt more rushed, that they worked harder, and were more frustrated [with a single monitor configuration]." "Participants spent more active time in the PDF reference document while completing tasks on the single monitor configurations" "Participants were observed to leave the PDF reference document open and viewable (but not in focus) while working with other source documents when in the dual monitor configurations." "Participants clicked less during tasks on the dual 22” monitors than the dual 17” monitors and single 17” and 22” monitors." "Participants switched between windows more frequently during tasks on a single 17” and 22” monitors than the dual 22” monitors."
wtbob 10y ago
> We have about 150+ engineers with Macs - and precisely zero of them asked for a desktop versus a MacBook Pro. Given that they're using glossy-screened laptops — maybe they care more about looks and hipness than about getting the job done?
- slantyyz 10y ago
  >> Given that they're using glossy-screened laptops — maybe they care more about looks and hipness than about getting the job done? Why the hate against glossy screens? The colors pop more and unless you're sitting in a spot that's prone to glare, you're just as productive as anyone else. I've never had an issue with a Macbook's glossy screen affecting my ability to work.
  - snovv_crash 10y ago
    If I need to look at it the whole day, I find glossy hurts my eyes more. If it is about having something pretty as a status symbol, then yeah glossy makes sense.
    - slantyyz 10y ago
      >> I find glossy hurts my eyes more. Sure, that's valid. But everyone's eyes are different, which is why I don't get why there are a lot of glossy screen haters out there. I never had that problem sitting in front of my glossy screened MBP for 8+ hours a day for 3+ years (it died but not because it had a glossy screen). >> If it is about having something pretty as a status symbol, then yeah glossy makes sense. Aren't glossy haters mocking/judging people basically using matte screens as status symbols? i.e., you must be a hipster or shallow and not a real programmer/{insert other profession here}?

douche 10y ago

Of course it was a personal opinion. Few are lucky enough to have as nice a setup as I do. That people get anything done at all on these little midget laptops is, quite frankly, amazing to me.

teacup50 10y ago
> That people get anything done at all on these little midget laptops is, quite frankly, amazing to me. Simply lacking screen real estate reduces available working memory that would be used to focus on a coding task. Given how this empirically impacts work quality, I'm pretty amazed how younger tech companies have pushed employees in this direction. It's not all that different from the open office trend.
- Consultant32452 10y ago
  As with all matters of psychology, YMMV. But it's definitely not for everyone. http://www.pcworld.com/article/251521/when_two_monitors_arent_enough.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/251521/when_two_monitors_aren... >"People dramatically overestimate their ability to manage their environment," Meyer says, adding that in some ways, using multiple monitors to keep all sorts of data visible is analogous to using a cell phone while driving.
  - teacup50 10y ago
    Well, sure, but isn't it rather obvious that using resources to engage in distracting non-work activities is detrimental to work efficiency? I've got 6880x1440 worth of curved display on my desk, and obviously, watching Netflix, browsing Facebook, or otherwise distracting myself with one of them would be a net productivity loss.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

nightski 10y ago

You made them make a choice regarding portability. They chose portability. That doesn't mean it was the most productive or efficient choice.

teacup50 10y ago

Studies show that it's true for the broad population, too. More screen real estate and faster processing directly and significantly impacts focus and working memory. Perhaps your employees aren't perfectly rational actors whose incentive is to maximize the utility of their tools while at the office? For example, there seems to be correlation between 1) wanting to keep git work local to a workstation and not push anywhere with public visibility, and 2) wanting to use a laptop so you can bring that local repository state with you. Neither desires are necessarily aligned with what benefits the company (or the quality of work), but they do drive a laptop preference.

astrange 10y ago
My experience with multiple large monitors is my eyes got drier, the room got hotter and I never found anything useful to put on them.
- teacup50 10y ago
  Doesn't sound like much of a controlled study. Selection bias may have played a part :P Even just having a physically larger display that fills your FOV appears to improve spatial task and memory performance: http://research-srv.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/desney/publications/TOCHI2006-LargeDisplays.pdf http://research-srv.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/desney/pub... From another study (http://pro.sagepub.com/content/56/1/1506.abstract http://pro.sagepub.com/content/56/1/1506.abstract) on actual satisfaction (not open access, so quoting some key bits): First, they provide a good summary of previous findings: "Previous research has demonstrated productivity increases for users performing tasks on larger or multiple screens. For instance, a 9% productivity increase was noted while using wider screens (15” flat panel vs. 46.5” curved screen) (Czerwinski, et al., 2003)." "Similarly, a 3.1% increase was noted using dual screens over a single screen (Poder, Godbout, & Bellemare, 2007). Task success has been found to increase for tasks performed on 4 – 17” monitors vs. a single 17” monitor (Truemper, et al., 2008). Likewise, tasks were performed faster and with less workload while using 2 – 17” monitors over a single 17” monitor (Kang & Stasko, 2007)." "Other studies have noted increased window interaction and open windows while using multi-monitor configurations (Hutchings, Smith, Meyers, Czerwinski, & Robertson, 2004)." "Issues with single monitor use have been well documented. Generally, higher mental workload, more window switching, repositioning, resizing, inadvertent opening, and closing of files have been associated with single small monitor usage (Czerwinski, et al., 2003). Users generally perceive small single monitors as requiring more workload (Grudin, 2001; Hashizume, Kurosu, Kaneko, 2007)." Second, their own findings: "Participants felt more rushed, that they worked harder, and were more frustrated [with a single monitor configuration]." "Participants spent more active time in the PDF reference document while completing tasks on the single monitor configurations" "Participants were observed to leave the PDF reference document open and viewable (but not in focus) while working with other source documents when in the dual monitor configurations." "Participants clicked less during tasks on the dual 22” monitors than the dual 17” monitors and single 17” and 22” monitors." "Participants switched between windows more frequently during tasks on a single 17” and 22” monitors than the dual 22” monitors."

wtbob 10y ago

> We have about 150+ engineers with Macs - and precisely zero of them asked for a desktop versus a MacBook Pro. Given that they're using glossy-screened laptops — maybe they care more about looks and hipness than about getting the job done?

slantyyz 10y ago
>> Given that they're using glossy-screened laptops — maybe they care more about looks and hipness than about getting the job done? Why the hate against glossy screens? The colors pop more and unless you're sitting in a spot that's prone to glare, you're just as productive as anyone else. I've never had an issue with a Macbook's glossy screen affecting my ability to work.
- snovv_crash 10y ago
  If I need to look at it the whole day, I find glossy hurts my eyes more. If it is about having something pretty as a status symbol, then yeah glossy makes sense.
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    >> I find glossy hurts my eyes more. Sure, that's valid. But everyone's eyes are different, which is why I don't get why there are a lot of glossy screen haters out there. I never had that problem sitting in front of my glossy screened MBP for 8+ hours a day for 3+ years (it died but not because it had a glossy screen). >> If it is about having something pretty as a status symbol, then yeah glossy makes sense. Aren't glossy haters mocking/judging people basically using matte screens as status symbols? i.e., you must be a hipster or shallow and not a real programmer/{insert other profession here}?