7 ms·

When Schiller showed how MS Office worked with the touch bar, I thought it was pretty hilarious. All of the toolbar buttons and more were already on the main s

When Schiller showed how MS Office worked with the touch bar, I thought it was pretty hilarious. All of the toolbar buttons and more were already on the main screen. If they had offered a touch screen instead, the user wouldn't have to take his/her eyes off the screen to perform the same functions. And that feature is already available on Windows machines with touch screens.

coldtea 10y ago
>If they had offered a touch screen instead, the user wouldn't have to take his/her eyes off the screen to perform the same functions. If they had "offered a touch screen instead", the users would have to hold their hand horizontally which would get tiring in about 5 minutes and unbearable after 10. Not to mention that the on-screen tools were and will still be there anyway if one wants to use them with the traditional, and not challenging to the muscles, mouse and touchpad technology...
- slantyyz 10y ago
  >> If they had "offered a touch screen instead", the users would have to hold their hand horizontally which would get tiring in about 5 minutes and unbearable after 10. Why do so many Mac users think the presence of a touch screen all of a sudden means using it full time? I got a Surface Pro when I was still a predominantly Mac user and I only used the touch screen when appropriate, which was for a fraction of a second every now and then. And it worked great. Using a touchscreen is definitely better than a touchpad in a lot of scenarios because of the ability to directly manipulate content instead of having to navigate to it.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >Why do so many Mac users think the presence of a touch screen all of a sudden means using it full time? Who said full time? Full time it would be unbearable in 1 minute. I said unbearable in 10 minutes with casual use in mind: raising your hand now and then to click this or that button.
    - slantyyz 10y ago
      I don't get how it can be unbearable in 10 minutes on a laptop. It's not going to be much further away from you than a tablet would be, and people love them their iPads. If the experience was -that- bad, nobody would be buying iPad Pros. And it's not as though you can't continue to use the keyboard, touchpad and/or mouse. I'll admit, when the Surface Pro first came out, I mocked the touchscreen too. I thought it would create Gorilla Arm. Then I actually got one and used it for an extended period of time. You don't even notice that you're touching the screen.
      - coldtea 10y ago
        >I don't get how it can be unbearable in 10 minutes on a laptop. It's not going to be much further away from you than a tablet would be, and people love them their iPads. If the experience was -that- bad, nobody would be buying iPad Pros. It's about the orientation, not the touch screen itself. A tablet you normally hold horizontally or at an angle when you use it. Now, if it was a detachable screen, like the Surface, that could work, but a laptop screen you have vertical to the keyboard.
        slantyyz 10y ago
        >> It's about the orientation, not the touch screen itself. A tablet you normally hold horizontally or at an angle when you use it. I get that it might not be for everyone, but a LOT of keyboard cases have been sold to iPad and iPad Pro users (and many of these cases prop up the iPad screen vertically). And keep in mind that iOS pretty much necessitates use of the touch screen more than Windows 8/10 does. So there must be a LOT of people who would be OK with that mode of use. With respect to the Surface, I use it with the keyboard attached 99% of the time so it's pretty much vertical all the time. It's not even remotely uncomfortable or tiring in normal use.
        coldtea 10y ago
        >I get that it might not be for everyone, but a LOT of keyboard cases have been sold to iPad and iPad Pro users (and many of these cases prop up the iPad screen vertically). Yes, but those are for writing -- ie. using the iPad laptop style. Not for doing work e.g. graphics, etc with the iPad vertically held.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  > If they had "offered a touch screen instead", the users would have to hold their hand horizontally which would get tiring in about 5 minutes and unbearable after 10. This is complete nonsense. I used to think this when I used a MacBook full time. I still do but buying a touchscreen PC has worked wonderfully and I never hover my hand long enough to do anything tiring. It's great for doing quick touches or scrolling / zooming in with precision. You wouldn't want to use it for everything because that's not its use case (this isn't a dedicated tablet this is a computer with a touch screen).
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >This is complete nonsense. I used to think this when I used a MacBook full time. I still do but buying a touchscreen PC has worked wonderfully and I never hover my hand long enough to do anything tiring. I never hover my hand period, so that's one better. Not that hot about touching the screen either... >It's great for doing quick touches or scrolling / zooming in with precision. With my hands on the keyboard and my thumbs close to the touchpad, I don't see the appeal of suddenly raising my hands to the screen, especially for general things like zooming, scrolling. It could make sense to manipulate something like an object directly, but to raise hands just for zooming or scrolling?
    - slantyyz 10y ago
      >> With my hands on the keyboard and my thumbs close to the touchpad, I don't see the appeal of suddenly raising my hands to the screen, especially for general things like zooming, scrolling. It could make sense to manipulate something like an object directly, but to raise hands just for zooming or scrolling? I think I figured it out. You're spoiled by the quality of the Apple touchpads. A few minutes with a crappy Windows touchpad and you'll be wishing you could touch the screen. FWIW, I hate all touchpads. I just hate Apple touchpads the least.
      - coldtea 10y ago
        >I think I figured it out. You're spoiled by the quality of the Apple touchpads. A few minutes with a crappy Windows touchpad and you'll be wishing you could touch the screen. Hmm, you might be on to something here. I'm so used to the Mac trackpads, than I almost never use a mouse with them (except for heavy illustrator/photoshop stuff), whereas with my Windows laptops I always use a mouse. >FWIW, I hate all touchpads. I just hate Apple touchpads the least. I hate the IBM's/Lenovo's red-nipple thing with the same passion!
- whywhywhywhy 10y ago
  >If they had "offered a touch screen instead", the users would have to hold their hand horizontally which would get tiring in about 5 minutes and unbearable after 10. Works fine for iPad users on the sofa.
danieldk 10y ago
Lifting my arm up to the screen every time I want to use something from the toolbar? No thank you. I already hate lifting my hands from the keyboard to use a trackpad.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  But you don't have to. You can still use keyboard shortcuts.
  - iwintermute 10y ago
    Like esc button?
  - majewsky 10y ago
    Except all of those which use an F-key are broken now. (You might interject that Mac OS itself does not use F-keys in shortcuts, but Linux and Windows apps in VMs do.)
    - slantyyz 10y ago
      Can't you use the Alt key in Windows? Dunno about Linux though.
  - danieldk 10y ago
    Sure, but this is the reason why a touch screen will not work for me on a laptop but the touch bar would (when well-executed).
fudged71 10y ago
Actually, even the Safari Touch Bar demo showed redundant URL bar and nav keys. Sad.

coldtea 10y ago

>If they had offered a touch screen instead, the user wouldn't have to take his/her eyes off the screen to perform the same functions. If they had "offered a touch screen instead", the users would have to hold their hand horizontally which would get tiring in about 5 minutes and unbearable after 10. Not to mention that the on-screen tools were and will still be there anyway if one wants to use them with the traditional, and not challenging to the muscles, mouse and touchpad technology...

slantyyz 10y ago
>> If they had "offered a touch screen instead", the users would have to hold their hand horizontally which would get tiring in about 5 minutes and unbearable after 10. Why do so many Mac users think the presence of a touch screen all of a sudden means using it full time? I got a Surface Pro when I was still a predominantly Mac user and I only used the touch screen when appropriate, which was for a fraction of a second every now and then. And it worked great. Using a touchscreen is definitely better than a touchpad in a lot of scenarios because of the ability to directly manipulate content instead of having to navigate to it.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >Why do so many Mac users think the presence of a touch screen all of a sudden means using it full time? Who said full time? Full time it would be unbearable in 1 minute. I said unbearable in 10 minutes with casual use in mind: raising your hand now and then to click this or that button.
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    I don't get how it can be unbearable in 10 minutes on a laptop. It's not going to be much further away from you than a tablet would be, and people love them their iPads. If the experience was -that- bad, nobody would be buying iPad Pros. And it's not as though you can't continue to use the keyboard, touchpad and/or mouse. I'll admit, when the Surface Pro first came out, I mocked the touchscreen too. I thought it would create Gorilla Arm. Then I actually got one and used it for an extended period of time. You don't even notice that you're touching the screen.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >I don't get how it can be unbearable in 10 minutes on a laptop. It's not going to be much further away from you than a tablet would be, and people love them their iPads. If the experience was -that- bad, nobody would be buying iPad Pros. It's about the orientation, not the touch screen itself. A tablet you normally hold horizontally or at an angle when you use it. Now, if it was a detachable screen, like the Surface, that could work, but a laptop screen you have vertical to the keyboard.
      - slantyyz 10y ago
        >> It's about the orientation, not the touch screen itself. A tablet you normally hold horizontally or at an angle when you use it. I get that it might not be for everyone, but a LOT of keyboard cases have been sold to iPad and iPad Pro users (and many of these cases prop up the iPad screen vertically). And keep in mind that iOS pretty much necessitates use of the touch screen more than Windows 8/10 does. So there must be a LOT of people who would be OK with that mode of use. With respect to the Surface, I use it with the keyboard attached 99% of the time so it's pretty much vertical all the time. It's not even remotely uncomfortable or tiring in normal use.
        coldtea 10y ago
        >I get that it might not be for everyone, but a LOT of keyboard cases have been sold to iPad and iPad Pro users (and many of these cases prop up the iPad screen vertically). Yes, but those are for writing -- ie. using the iPad laptop style. Not for doing work e.g. graphics, etc with the iPad vertically held.
BinaryIdiot 10y ago
> If they had "offered a touch screen instead", the users would have to hold their hand horizontally which would get tiring in about 5 minutes and unbearable after 10. This is complete nonsense. I used to think this when I used a MacBook full time. I still do but buying a touchscreen PC has worked wonderfully and I never hover my hand long enough to do anything tiring. It's great for doing quick touches or scrolling / zooming in with precision. You wouldn't want to use it for everything because that's not its use case (this isn't a dedicated tablet this is a computer with a touch screen).
- coldtea 10y ago
  >This is complete nonsense. I used to think this when I used a MacBook full time. I still do but buying a touchscreen PC has worked wonderfully and I never hover my hand long enough to do anything tiring. I never hover my hand period, so that's one better. Not that hot about touching the screen either... >It's great for doing quick touches or scrolling / zooming in with precision. With my hands on the keyboard and my thumbs close to the touchpad, I don't see the appeal of suddenly raising my hands to the screen, especially for general things like zooming, scrolling. It could make sense to manipulate something like an object directly, but to raise hands just for zooming or scrolling?
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    >> With my hands on the keyboard and my thumbs close to the touchpad, I don't see the appeal of suddenly raising my hands to the screen, especially for general things like zooming, scrolling. It could make sense to manipulate something like an object directly, but to raise hands just for zooming or scrolling? I think I figured it out. You're spoiled by the quality of the Apple touchpads. A few minutes with a crappy Windows touchpad and you'll be wishing you could touch the screen. FWIW, I hate all touchpads. I just hate Apple touchpads the least.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >I think I figured it out. You're spoiled by the quality of the Apple touchpads. A few minutes with a crappy Windows touchpad and you'll be wishing you could touch the screen. Hmm, you might be on to something here. I'm so used to the Mac trackpads, than I almost never use a mouse with them (except for heavy illustrator/photoshop stuff), whereas with my Windows laptops I always use a mouse. >FWIW, I hate all touchpads. I just hate Apple touchpads the least. I hate the IBM's/Lenovo's red-nipple thing with the same passion!
whywhywhywhy 10y ago
>If they had "offered a touch screen instead", the users would have to hold their hand horizontally which would get tiring in about 5 minutes and unbearable after 10. Works fine for iPad users on the sofa.

danieldk 10y ago

Lifting my arm up to the screen every time I want to use something from the toolbar? No thank you. I already hate lifting my hands from the keyboard to use a trackpad.

slantyyz 10y ago
But you don't have to. You can still use keyboard shortcuts.
- iwintermute 10y ago
  Like esc button?
- majewsky 10y ago
  Except all of those which use an F-key are broken now. (You might interject that Mac OS itself does not use F-keys in shortcuts, but Linux and Windows apps in VMs do.)
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    Can't you use the Alt key in Windows? Dunno about Linux though.
- danieldk 10y ago
  Sure, but this is the reason why a touch screen will not work for me on a laptop but the touch bar would (when well-executed).

fudged71 10y ago

Actually, even the Safari Touch Bar demo showed redundant URL bar and nav keys. Sad.