20 ms·

You are making the assumption that they care about sophisticated users, and I can't see any evidence that they have for quite a while.

oldmanjay 10y ago
You seem to have conflated sophistication with fear of change. The history of technology shows this fear is misplaced. If the interface provided is compelling, most people will adapt. Some will long for the old ways to be the only ways, but that's never been a segment of desire that gets much attention for what I assume are obvious reasons.
- khedoros1 10y ago
  You seem to have conflated fear of change with desire not to have useful functionality removed and replaced with functionality that might prove useful. The touch strip is cool, but it suddenly means looking down at the keyboard to use it, and the loss of the tactile sensation of the keys. Maybe it's a net gain for some people. For me, it's at best 2 steps forward, 1 step back. It's a mixed blessing.
  - oldmanjay 10y ago
    It doesn't really rebut me to twist up a bunch of semantics to make it seem like something is being taken away from you by the fact that Apple is making a product you don't like.
    - khedoros1 10y ago
      I'm just saying that it's a change that I dislike on an emotional level, and that I believe that needing to look at my computers controls to use them will lead to a permanent net decrease in comfort using the machine. They're making a product that I don't like, and that's not a new phenomenon. Categorically, I dislike things that seem like change for the sake of change, and I dislike things that feel like a company herding my behavior in the direction they want me to go. On the other hand, I like progress. In my opinion, features like this are certainly change, but I doubt that they're progress. That is, I think that it both adds and removes features. Fear of change isn't a bad thing, in and of itself. I think the point that we disagree on the strongest is whether Apple's new hardware represents actual progress, or merely change.
- aschampion 10y ago
  Not wanting to divert attention from the screen during engaged work has nothing to do with fear of change.
  - oldmanjay 10y ago
    Sure it does. People don't want to change their habits because of a hypothesized productive decline that is, by the necessity of not having tried the change, based solely on emotion. Call the emotion whatever you want if "fear" makes you feel too silly.
- puddintane 10y ago
  Except this would be un-adaptable. Looking away from a screen that has no physical feedback to alert the user where the fingers are will cause issues. I don't know a single person who can actually type on a smart phone without looking and nearly zero mistakes.
- majewsky 10y ago
  > You seem to have conflated sophistication with fear of change. The history of technology shows this fear is misplaced. If the interface provided is compelling, most people will adapt. You're typing this on a keyboard layout designed to avoid jams on typewriters.
rsync 10y ago
Not only does apple not care about sophisticated, or "power" users, it's becoming more and more clear that there are not many sophisticated users within apple itself. Let's take multiple monitor support as an example - something that vacillates between barely working and a dumpster fire, depending on the release of OSX. Aren't there people within apple that need three screens ? Aren't there power users within apple that demand this functionality ? We are left to conclude that zero, or almost zero, people inside of apple are using this kind of configuration[1] - otherwise there is no way it would be allowed this kind of dysfunction. Some other things that we are forced to conclude nobody at apple does: - use USB cellular modems/dongles - tile windows to hide unnecessary desktop - primarily mouse-free usage - move files in the finder with 'cut' - use the god damned escape key, for the love of christ We all knew this was coming - the day that Apple "mac pro'd" the rest of the lineup. We got a sneak peak with the 12" macbook. Now the other shoe drops. [1] For instance, this relatively boring use-case: three primary screens on a desktop and a large flat panel connected as a secondary display. Kind of sort of works in snow leopard. Various, random dysfunction in each release of OSX thereafter.
- rayiner 10y ago
  What's wrong with Apple's multi-monitor support? At least mixed-DPI configurations have worked fine on Mac for years, unlike with Windows. Also: (1) USB tethering to an iPhone is just about the easiest cellular solution there is; (2) Google "Divvy"; (3) a big draw of the touchpad is that mousing doesn't take your hands that far off the keyboard; (4) real men and women use Terminal for file management.
  - rsync 10y ago
    "What's wrong with Apple's multi-monitor support?" One thing immediately comes to mind: configure a multiple (3 or 4) monitor setup (again, not exactly exotic) and then full screen a video in one of the monitors ... now change focus to a different window in a different physical screen. Fun ensues. Different fun, depending on OSX release. USB or bluetooth tethering is great - I'd prefer to use that always - but some use-cases demand a physical thing stuck into the laptop and the plain old USB A-type is flexibility I don't like to see deprecated. I'll gladly take 1mm additional laptop thickness in order to retain those and I think the 11" macbook air, with one type-A on each side, is a pretty powerful swiss army knife.
Naomarik 10y ago
Seems they catering to the emoji, Siri users. I want a Mac I can write on with a longer battery life. Surface Book is looking good right now.
coldtea 10y ago
>You are making the assumption that they care about sophisticated users You are making the assumption that your workloads are what define "sophisticated users". I don't think a professional videographer or a photographer (both of which I do, and am very excited about extra on-demand functionality that the strip brings, for which many fork $300 and $1000 for dedicated external control strips and surfaces) is less "sophisticated" than some code churner that has a typing-heavy workload and doesn't have a use for taking his hands off the home row. That said, I wont be using it much when programming either. But for Photoshop, Cubase and such? Shut up and take my money!
dragonwriter 10y ago
Touch typists and sophisticated users are distinct, but overlapping, sets of users.

oldmanjay 10y ago

You seem to have conflated sophistication with fear of change. The history of technology shows this fear is misplaced. If the interface provided is compelling, most people will adapt. Some will long for the old ways to be the only ways, but that's never been a segment of desire that gets much attention for what I assume are obvious reasons.

khedoros1 10y ago
You seem to have conflated fear of change with desire not to have useful functionality removed and replaced with functionality that might prove useful. The touch strip is cool, but it suddenly means looking down at the keyboard to use it, and the loss of the tactile sensation of the keys. Maybe it's a net gain for some people. For me, it's at best 2 steps forward, 1 step back. It's a mixed blessing.
- oldmanjay 10y ago
  It doesn't really rebut me to twist up a bunch of semantics to make it seem like something is being taken away from you by the fact that Apple is making a product you don't like.
  - khedoros1 10y ago
    I'm just saying that it's a change that I dislike on an emotional level, and that I believe that needing to look at my computers controls to use them will lead to a permanent net decrease in comfort using the machine. They're making a product that I don't like, and that's not a new phenomenon. Categorically, I dislike things that seem like change for the sake of change, and I dislike things that feel like a company herding my behavior in the direction they want me to go. On the other hand, I like progress. In my opinion, features like this are certainly change, but I doubt that they're progress. That is, I think that it both adds and removes features. Fear of change isn't a bad thing, in and of itself. I think the point that we disagree on the strongest is whether Apple's new hardware represents actual progress, or merely change.
aschampion 10y ago
Not wanting to divert attention from the screen during engaged work has nothing to do with fear of change.
- oldmanjay 10y ago
  Sure it does. People don't want to change their habits because of a hypothesized productive decline that is, by the necessity of not having tried the change, based solely on emotion. Call the emotion whatever you want if "fear" makes you feel too silly.
puddintane 10y ago
Except this would be un-adaptable. Looking away from a screen that has no physical feedback to alert the user where the fingers are will cause issues. I don't know a single person who can actually type on a smart phone without looking and nearly zero mistakes.
majewsky 10y ago
> You seem to have conflated sophistication with fear of change. The history of technology shows this fear is misplaced. If the interface provided is compelling, most people will adapt. You're typing this on a keyboard layout designed to avoid jams on typewriters.

rsync 10y ago

Not only does apple not care about sophisticated, or "power" users, it's becoming more and more clear that there are not many sophisticated users within apple itself. Let's take multiple monitor support as an example - something that vacillates between barely working and a dumpster fire, depending on the release of OSX. Aren't there people within apple that need three screens ? Aren't there power users within apple that demand this functionality ? We are left to conclude that zero, or almost zero, people inside of apple are using this kind of configuration[1] - otherwise there is no way it would be allowed this kind of dysfunction. Some other things that we are forced to conclude nobody at apple does: - use USB cellular modems/dongles - tile windows to hide unnecessary desktop - primarily mouse-free usage - move files in the finder with 'cut' - use the god damned escape key, for the love of christ We all knew this was coming - the day that Apple "mac pro'd" the rest of the lineup. We got a sneak peak with the 12" macbook. Now the other shoe drops. [1] For instance, this relatively boring use-case: three primary screens on a desktop and a large flat panel connected as a secondary display. Kind of sort of works in snow leopard. Various, random dysfunction in each release of OSX thereafter.

rayiner 10y ago
What's wrong with Apple's multi-monitor support? At least mixed-DPI configurations have worked fine on Mac for years, unlike with Windows. Also: (1) USB tethering to an iPhone is just about the easiest cellular solution there is; (2) Google "Divvy"; (3) a big draw of the touchpad is that mousing doesn't take your hands that far off the keyboard; (4) real men and women use Terminal for file management.
- rsync 10y ago
  "What's wrong with Apple's multi-monitor support?" One thing immediately comes to mind: configure a multiple (3 or 4) monitor setup (again, not exactly exotic) and then full screen a video in one of the monitors ... now change focus to a different window in a different physical screen. Fun ensues. Different fun, depending on OSX release. USB or bluetooth tethering is great - I'd prefer to use that always - but some use-cases demand a physical thing stuck into the laptop and the plain old USB A-type is flexibility I don't like to see deprecated. I'll gladly take 1mm additional laptop thickness in order to retain those and I think the 11" macbook air, with one type-A on each side, is a pretty powerful swiss army knife.

Naomarik 10y ago

Seems they catering to the emoji, Siri users. I want a Mac I can write on with a longer battery life. Surface Book is looking good right now.

coldtea 10y ago

>You are making the assumption that they care about sophisticated users You are making the assumption that your workloads are what define "sophisticated users". I don't think a professional videographer or a photographer (both of which I do, and am very excited about extra on-demand functionality that the strip brings, for which many fork $300 and $1000 for dedicated external control strips and surfaces) is less "sophisticated" than some code churner that has a typing-heavy workload and doesn't have a use for taking his hands off the home row. That said, I wont be using it much when programming either. But for Photoshop, Cubase and such? Shut up and take my money!

dragonwriter 10y ago

Touch typists and sophisticated users are distinct, but overlapping, sets of users.