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A good point, but experts can review the algorithms and report on them to laypeople. Almost everything in the world that we understand is a result of that proce

A good point, but experts can review the algorithms and report on them to laypeople. Almost everything in the world that we understand is a result of that process, other than some things (not all) in the field we have expertise in. Nobody has time to review the source material in more than a tiny fraction of the things they know.

k__ 10y ago
Just look at the "Science Must Fall" movement in South Africa. The problem with this is simply, that if some people don't understand the science, other that ALSO don't understand it can tell them they DO understand it. Who should tell the differens, besides the people wo really understand it?
- freshhawk 10y ago
  Excellent example! There are three groups or movements in question: Rhodes Must Fall: protestors unhappy with having a large statue of Cecil Rhodes (founder of De Beers, "architect of apartheid", extreme white supremacist) on their campus. Fees Must Fall: Large protests against university fee increases that used the naming convention Shackville-TRC: advocates for alternative dispute resolution for those students who were expelled for participating in the protests. "Science Must Fall": a hashtag made to mock one single student who said very crazy stuff in a video on youtube. There is no "science must fall" movement documented, there was one viral story about one single person saying one single dumb thing. It went viral on Reddit in the /r/videos and /r/rage sub-reddits (those bastions of coherent discourse). It was picked up by click-bait sites who implied the existence of a movement because the angrier you are the more likely you are to click "share". This is an excellent example of the exact problem being discussed, although I'm not convinced transparency into the algorithms is the solution here. We already know exactly why these stories were pushed out to people's feeds: this type of disinformation makes money.
  - gozur88 10y ago
    Yeah, as I recall when I watched that video the other students struggled to remain respectful but eventually started to openly laugh at her. You wouldn't necessarily know it from the framing text search engine bots would have scanned.
  - r_smart 10y ago
    Off topic: The interesting thing about that video to me was how closely it mirrored the rhetoric from the opening of the 'Three Body Problem' as the Chinese revolutionaries tried to force a college physics professor to revoke science.
- Florin_Andrei 10y ago
  So, perhaps the issue here is not that average people can't comprehend high science (or politics, or economics, etc). The issue is really one of trust.
omginternets 10y ago
I think Assimov's "A cult of ignorance" is a good analysis of where this approach falls short.
drakonandor 10y ago
The issue is there that an uneducated person cannot know if an 'expert' is actually an 'expert'.
- szatkus 10y ago
  In my experience true experts win sooner or later. Almost no one today believes that Earth is flat.
  - srd 10y ago
    Except sometimes later is too late. See climate change.
paavokoya 10y ago
Yeah but most of the time laypeople disregard the scientists and substitute their own logic anyways.. People are incredibly stubborn and set in their opinions.

k__ 10y ago

Just look at the "Science Must Fall" movement in South Africa. The problem with this is simply, that if some people don't understand the science, other that ALSO don't understand it can tell them they DO understand it. Who should tell the differens, besides the people wo really understand it?

freshhawk 10y ago
Excellent example! There are three groups or movements in question: Rhodes Must Fall: protestors unhappy with having a large statue of Cecil Rhodes (founder of De Beers, "architect of apartheid", extreme white supremacist) on their campus. Fees Must Fall: Large protests against university fee increases that used the naming convention Shackville-TRC: advocates for alternative dispute resolution for those students who were expelled for participating in the protests. "Science Must Fall": a hashtag made to mock one single student who said very crazy stuff in a video on youtube. There is no "science must fall" movement documented, there was one viral story about one single person saying one single dumb thing. It went viral on Reddit in the /r/videos and /r/rage sub-reddits (those bastions of coherent discourse). It was picked up by click-bait sites who implied the existence of a movement because the angrier you are the more likely you are to click "share". This is an excellent example of the exact problem being discussed, although I'm not convinced transparency into the algorithms is the solution here. We already know exactly why these stories were pushed out to people's feeds: this type of disinformation makes money.
- gozur88 10y ago
  Yeah, as I recall when I watched that video the other students struggled to remain respectful but eventually started to openly laugh at her. You wouldn't necessarily know it from the framing text search engine bots would have scanned.
- r_smart 10y ago
  Off topic: The interesting thing about that video to me was how closely it mirrored the rhetoric from the opening of the 'Three Body Problem' as the Chinese revolutionaries tried to force a college physics professor to revoke science.
Florin_Andrei 10y ago
So, perhaps the issue here is not that average people can't comprehend high science (or politics, or economics, etc). The issue is really one of trust.

omginternets 10y ago

I think Assimov's "A cult of ignorance" is a good analysis of where this approach falls short.

drakonandor 10y ago

The issue is there that an uneducated person cannot know if an 'expert' is actually an 'expert'.

szatkus 10y ago
In my experience true experts win sooner or later. Almost no one today believes that Earth is flat.
- srd 10y ago
  Except sometimes later is too late. See climate change.

paavokoya 10y ago

Yeah but most of the time laypeople disregard the scientists and substitute their own logic anyways.. People are incredibly stubborn and set in their opinions.