5 ms·

In theory if you are a top performer, you can go walk down the street for a raise. and keep going it until you can't get more raises. Not that all top performe

In theory if you are a top performer, you can go walk down the street for a raise. and keep going it until you can't get more raises. Not that all top performers do this. Being good at a job has little relation to being good at getting paid a lot. But you can be both a top performer AND top paid, if you play the right cards.

st3v3r 10y ago
If you're a top performer, you can also see that the company is not paying you at the top of people they're paying.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  But I am not sure you need transparency for this? Can usually get close to ranges if you ask a few coworker friends and/or interview around.
  - hx87 10y ago
    > Can usually get close to ranges if you ask a few coworker friends and/or interview around. Isn't that transparency, although in a very biased and limited form? Why would having more transparency reduce your leverage? It's easier to play the right cards when you know what cards are in play.
    - brianwawok 10y ago
      > Why would having more transparency reduce your leverage? Because of jealousy. There have to be a good 10-20 software companies with this Open Salary thing. From them, find one where for two people with the same # of years of experience, person A makes 2x what person B makes. From what I see, they all more or less settle on a (base pay) + (# of years * multiplier) + (maybe a location bonus) = Salary. I don't see variables in there for (he is awesome) For a counter example, I can point you to wallstreet or finance in Chicago, and show you 100s of people where people at the same level make as much as a 2x pay difference.
      - ryandrake 10y ago
        I'd argue that in companies where salaries are not transparent, there is also not a (he is awesome) variable. Salaries among the same title/level are dependent more on how good of a negotiator you are or how good your relationship is with your manager, than whether or not you are awesome. EDIT: In theory they should be based on what the employee could get elsewhere in the market, but if that were always true there would be no job hopping.
      - sharemywin 10y ago
        I would think that if your writing code I can't maintain, but if you leave I have to maintain it or get fired, I have a strong incentive to pay you well. Remember all of these have a feedback component too. What I think it will help with is Bullshit. If person A takes a lot of credit has better access to higher ups and they're in the spotlight a lot, maybe that kind of opportunity should be spread around.
        RHSeeger 10y ago
        > I would think that if your writing code I can't maintain, but if you leave I have to maintain it or get fired, I have a strong incentive to pay you well. If you're writing code I can't maintain, my preference is to pay you less. Writing code that is easier to maintain is one sign of a good developer. I don't want to pay you more because its too painful to lose you. I want to pay you more because its wonderful to have you.
        sharemywin 10y ago
        I assume the people making 2x everyone else are maintaining complex financial models no one else understands.
      - sheepmullet 10y ago
        > For a counter example, I can point you to wallstreet or finance in Chicago, and show you 100s of people where people at the same level make as much as a 2x pay difference. If you think people in finance don't know what their peers are getting paid you are fooling yourself. They are overall much more mature and transparent about pay than we are.
    - michaelt 10y ago
      Why would having more transparency reduce your leverage? You: "I've gone above and beyond, and produced $X of value. I'd like a raise of $0.1X please" Boss: "If I did that, I'd have to give your 20 peers the same raise. You'll need to produce at least $20X value if you want a raise of $0.1X. I can give you a raise of $0.005X if you like"
      - ryandrake 10y ago
        I think a few people in this thread seem to be confusing salary transparency with "everyone makes the same salary". Don't think anyone is arguing for the latter.
  - andrei_says_ 10y ago
    Have you actually tried asking coworkers for their salaries? My experience is that this is a taboo topic.
    - brianwawok 10y ago
      Yes. Several times I have participated in a "throw salary facedown on the table, and we flip them all up together". Companies hate it, as it gives you more bargaining power. Has to be with people you at least sorta like though, can't go demand it from some 12 cubes over.

st3v3r 10y ago

If you're a top performer, you can also see that the company is not paying you at the top of people they're paying.

brianwawok 10y ago
But I am not sure you need transparency for this? Can usually get close to ranges if you ask a few coworker friends and/or interview around.
- hx87 10y ago
  > Can usually get close to ranges if you ask a few coworker friends and/or interview around. Isn't that transparency, although in a very biased and limited form? Why would having more transparency reduce your leverage? It's easier to play the right cards when you know what cards are in play.
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    > Why would having more transparency reduce your leverage? Because of jealousy. There have to be a good 10-20 software companies with this Open Salary thing. From them, find one where for two people with the same # of years of experience, person A makes 2x what person B makes. From what I see, they all more or less settle on a (base pay) + (# of years * multiplier) + (maybe a location bonus) = Salary. I don't see variables in there for (he is awesome) For a counter example, I can point you to wallstreet or finance in Chicago, and show you 100s of people where people at the same level make as much as a 2x pay difference.
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      I'd argue that in companies where salaries are not transparent, there is also not a (he is awesome) variable. Salaries among the same title/level are dependent more on how good of a negotiator you are or how good your relationship is with your manager, than whether or not you are awesome. EDIT: In theory they should be based on what the employee could get elsewhere in the market, but if that were always true there would be no job hopping.
    - sharemywin 10y ago
      I would think that if your writing code I can't maintain, but if you leave I have to maintain it or get fired, I have a strong incentive to pay you well. Remember all of these have a feedback component too. What I think it will help with is Bullshit. If person A takes a lot of credit has better access to higher ups and they're in the spotlight a lot, maybe that kind of opportunity should be spread around.
      - RHSeeger 10y ago
        > I would think that if your writing code I can't maintain, but if you leave I have to maintain it or get fired, I have a strong incentive to pay you well. If you're writing code I can't maintain, my preference is to pay you less. Writing code that is easier to maintain is one sign of a good developer. I don't want to pay you more because its too painful to lose you. I want to pay you more because its wonderful to have you.
        sharemywin 10y ago
        I assume the people making 2x everyone else are maintaining complex financial models no one else understands.
    - sheepmullet 10y ago
      > For a counter example, I can point you to wallstreet or finance in Chicago, and show you 100s of people where people at the same level make as much as a 2x pay difference. If you think people in finance don't know what their peers are getting paid you are fooling yourself. They are overall much more mature and transparent about pay than we are.
  - michaelt 10y ago
    Why would having more transparency reduce your leverage? You: "I've gone above and beyond, and produced $X of value. I'd like a raise of $0.1X please" Boss: "If I did that, I'd have to give your 20 peers the same raise. You'll need to produce at least $20X value if you want a raise of $0.1X. I can give you a raise of $0.005X if you like"
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      I think a few people in this thread seem to be confusing salary transparency with "everyone makes the same salary". Don't think anyone is arguing for the latter.
- andrei_says_ 10y ago
  Have you actually tried asking coworkers for their salaries? My experience is that this is a taboo topic.
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    Yes. Several times I have participated in a "throw salary facedown on the table, and we flip them all up together". Companies hate it, as it gives you more bargaining power. Has to be with people you at least sorta like though, can't go demand it from some 12 cubes over.