4 ms·

Why are you having children in grad school or as a postdoc? And three at that..

fsloth 10y ago
Because biology does not stop? The older the parents the riskier having kids becomes. The last time I looked at science there was no vow of staying childless required.
- jawilson2 10y ago
  I kind of like the irony of the scientific "class" becoming childless, like a priesthood. It's probably not too far from the truth. Kind of like the two couples in Idiocracy.
  - fsloth 10y ago
    Yes. Especially since historically the idea of a childless priesthood is a stopgap to stop too much wealth and power accumulating for the priestly class through inheritance.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dwaltrip 10y ago
Your question comes off as as self-righteous and overly critically. Why shouldn't he have kids? Clearly, he found a way to provide for them, to a higher degree than most, I would add.
jawilson2 10y ago
Because I didn't want to be 60 years old with a kid in high school? This type of question represents one of the things that really turns people away from getting into science, or makes people leave. You are expected to give up your ENTIRE PERSONAL LIFE to "the good of society" and make these sacrifices, for...what? To get denied tenure in 5 years (if you're lucky enough to be tenure-track)? This is even more true for women, though this isn't unique to academia. I was thirty years old, had been married for 6 years, just finished my PhD, and thought starting a family sounded like a reasonable thing to. And, my next two kids were born after my postdoc. So, fuck that, and anyone who thinks that waiting until you're 40 to have kids sounds reasonable.
pvaldes 10y ago
Because you can not get pregnant at 55yo. For many scientist women is a now or never.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  I think people underestimate how long "making it" as a scientist takes. For most life plans, having kids while you're still in education or training is a crappy plan. For science, "education and training" can easily stretch to being a postdoc at age 40. Waiting for kids until you're 'settled' just isn't a justifiable demand for a career that takes 30 years to become established.
marchenko 10y ago
Grad students are usually between 24 and 30. Postdocs between 27 and 40. A career in science should not be treated like the sacrament of Holy Orders. Although practically, many early-career researchers seem to adhere to the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience ...
maverick_iceman 10y ago
Is grad school supposed to be a monastic convent?
- eanzenberg 10y ago
  You can have sex without kids?

Because biology does not stop? The older the parents the riskier having kids becomes. The last time I looked at science there was no vow of staying childless required.

jawilson2 10y ago
I kind of like the irony of the scientific "class" becoming childless, like a priesthood. It's probably not too far from the truth. Kind of like the two couples in Idiocracy.
- fsloth 10y ago
  Yes. Especially since historically the idea of a childless priesthood is a stopgap to stop too much wealth and power accumulating for the priestly class through inheritance.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

dwaltrip 10y ago

Your question comes off as as self-righteous and overly critically. Why shouldn't he have kids? Clearly, he found a way to provide for them, to a higher degree than most, I would add.

jawilson2 10y ago

Because I didn't want to be 60 years old with a kid in high school? This type of question represents one of the things that really turns people away from getting into science, or makes people leave. You are expected to give up your ENTIRE PERSONAL LIFE to "the good of society" and make these sacrifices, for...what? To get denied tenure in 5 years (if you're lucky enough to be tenure-track)? This is even more true for women, though this isn't unique to academia. I was thirty years old, had been married for 6 years, just finished my PhD, and thought starting a family sounded like a reasonable thing to. And, my next two kids were born after my postdoc. So, fuck that, and anyone who thinks that waiting until you're 40 to have kids sounds reasonable.

pvaldes 10y ago

Because you can not get pregnant at 55yo. For many scientist women is a now or never.

Bartweiss 10y ago
I think people underestimate how long "making it" as a scientist takes. For most life plans, having kids while you're still in education or training is a crappy plan. For science, "education and training" can easily stretch to being a postdoc at age 40. Waiting for kids until you're 'settled' just isn't a justifiable demand for a career that takes 30 years to become established.

marchenko 10y ago

Grad students are usually between 24 and 30. Postdocs between 27 and 40. A career in science should not be treated like the sacrament of Holy Orders. Although practically, many early-career researchers seem to adhere to the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience ...

maverick_iceman 10y ago

Is grad school supposed to be a monastic convent?

eanzenberg 10y ago
You can have sex without kids?