5 ms·

I don't forgive you. I don't forgive you for putting ads on my Start Menu. Or on my lock screen. I don't forgive you for taking away my choice on when I want t

by olyjohn 10y ago

I don't forgive you. I don't forgive you for putting ads on my Start Menu. Or on my lock screen. I don't forgive you for taking away my choice on when I want to update my computer. I don't forgive you for firing your QA team and then using the public as your beta testers. For taking away features in Windows Pro that could force people to upgrade to Enterprise. For us having to pay for support on top of buying your software. For not allowing home users to turn off Telemetry. For all of the product confusion and terrible naming conventions. I won't even go into past practices... I don't get how years of screwing everybody over can suddenly be turned around with some marketing saying "we <3 linux" and open sourcing a few projects out of desperation. They only <3 Linux because they have to. It's going to take a long time for me to regain their trust.

wuschel 10y ago
And you are not alone. It has been too much. If not for certain high value programs that run best on a native system, I would not start the old VMWare-virtualized Windows 7 up again. There are sufficiently good (and cheap) solutions in the Linux community. First Microsoft has to fix what they have been doing wrong for years. And then then have to answer the question what additional value they are providing for the money a company has to pay for their "services". Hype articles can not undo evil.
mixmastamyk 10y ago
(for them to regain your trust)
dingo_bat 10y ago
> putting ads on my Start Menu. Or on my lock screen Anecdotal, but I haven't seen any ads in those places. Been using Win 10 since the preview. I'm not a fan of the "metro" interface/apps. I am a fan of the underlying tech in Windows and the general focus on usability and reliability. My laptop "just works" in every sense of the phrase, and it feels more responsive to my choices and demands than competing platforms (OSX and Ubuntu).
- chadgeidel 10y ago
  There are ads for Microsoft products in the app store and ads for Office on the start menu in "stock" Windows (installed from MSDN ISO - not from a hardware vendor). The lock screen has an (optional?) theme which displays high-res photos from Microsoft. Some of those photos have been game ads. I personally think it's unobtrusive, but the ads are there.
  - flukus 10y ago
    The lock screen is especially annoying. They can show ads fine but it takes several seconds to start accepting input from my keyboard.
    - dingo_bat 10y ago
      I don't see the logic of a lock screen. Why doesn't it directly enter my password? Why must I swipe away the wallpaper to access the password box? I mean it's not like my phone that I wake up the laptop just to look at the lock screen notifications. If I wake up my laptop, I'm gonna unlock it! Really dumb ui.
      - flukus 10y ago
        Probably because it is the phone UI.
    - chadgeidel 10y ago
      I agree. Additionally (at least in my experience) - the steps to go through to show the password box are maddeningly different. Sometimes moving the mouse works, sometimes typing on the keyboard works, sometimes neither work and I have to use ctrl-alt-delete.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  I have seen both, once or twice months ago on my W10 Pro. [0] Now they just have new and ever updating artwork on my login screen and it is actually really nice. Often there is a link to "see more" or something in the top left corner and very often I click it and spend up to two minutes looking at nice photos on bing[1]. Yep. I know I have been binged, but i kinda like it, just don't try to search for programming questions, those belong on ddg, worst case with a !g appended. [0]: this is a bit shameful IMO, pushing ads on paying customers. Please Microsoft employees who hang around here: spread this inside MS, - don't spam paying customers!!! [1]: this is totally OK with me as long as you do it like you do today with a bit of taste. I actually enjoy it quite a bit. Hopefully it is easy to turn off for those who don't like it.
blub 10y ago
Microsoft is imitating Google and switching their business model to spyware-as-a-service. And almost everyone's falling for it, just like they did for Google.
digler999 10y ago
I agree the privacy and cripple ware issues are bad, but to me that pales in comparison to the decade-plus of shipping vulnerable code that allowed anyone to root your system by serving one bad ad or emailing you one jpeg. I can't fathom how many families lost their photos, or paid hundreds of dollars for a tech to run mbam. How many identities were stolen, how many small businesses lost money, how much productivity lost. All because of the license agreement absolving them of ALL liability and product guarantees. This is grave, it had a substantial negative impact,spanning over 10 years, and nothing was done about it. If there ever were an unforgivable offense, this was it.
- Aldo_MX 10y ago
  So... you're also going to hate Linux since they left Dirty Cow unpatched for 9 years? Get real, perfect and secure code doesn't exist.
  - digler999 10y ago
    Then what are their customers paying for? You are aware that paying for something is a contract, presumably for a product or service of value. So effectively you consider the malware a value to the customer ? . You think ignoring security is acceptable?
    - Aldo_MX 10y ago
      An EULA is displayed the first time you turn your PC on (or during the Windows setup), if you had read it you would probably know what are you paying for. Anyway, I suggest you to read the Open Source licenses before hating on Windows about malware, all of them basically say: "If you break your computer it's not our fault", like the following excerpt from the GPL: This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. I don't condone malware, but it is pretty obvious that the most popular platform will be the most targeted by malware authors. Too many people fall for the "I don't need AV, I don't use Windows" fallacy, but every software is vulnerable. The best advice I can give you is the following one: Don't run untrusted code.
saosebastiao 10y ago
It's almost as if the Windows teams think they're still under Ballmer.
alexssung 10y ago
This. I'd like to emphasize the QA part and their using the public as beta testers (absolutely true and totally unacceptable). Microsoft's quality control on everything has been terrible lately, which is saying a lot because their quality control has always been crap. Good thing they have a great marketing team. They will keep producing cool looking ads and presentations that imitate Apple and hope that their customers will forget every buggy and disastrous launch
- Aldo_MX 10y ago
  I don't find the QA part that terrible, freeloaders are the kind of users that would pirate Windows, so rather than being a nuisance they're volunteering themselves to test the OS. Although it would had been better if they kept their QA teams, since there are issues that only a QA engineer would be able to find.
joesmo 10y ago
Monopoly can be forgiven. What's happening now cannot be forgiven. Microsoft is more dangerous now, but it seems people just don't care. They use Windows despite having no assurance that Microsoft won't copy their data unbeknownst to them or spy on them in some way they don't realize or install some software they don't want. If this is better, give me 90's Microsoft anytime. At least they were just out for profits and domination then. I don't know what they're after now, but considering the revelations of the past few years and what this "operating system" does, the fact that they're making this information available to dangerous third parties is almost guaranteed. The gullibility and stupidity of developers (like the author) is simply mind-boggling sometimes.
anexprogrammer 10y ago
I don't forgive the sneaky and forced migration to 10 meaning I get family support calls for the first time in ages. Or the hours spent sorting the laptop that's not fully compatible but got upgraded anyway. Last I don't forgive you for not finding a way that 7 can't bloody ruin 10 via chkdsk. Yet more family support. Just about everyone likes Aero, so they drop it, as it doesn't fit the failed one desktop, every platform cult. At least other flat gui's actually have some design rather than try to emulate Gem and just use 3 colours. Unlike Microsoft, I understand that's subjective. Mind, I never really forgave the world for adopting cooperative multitasking and the most horrific API and programming model I've encountered and that was 3.1. Scared me back to *nix for the rest of my career. Trust? Not likely I need to reach neutral first. I did quite like C# though, despite some wtf moments in the docs! :)
happy-go-lucky 10y ago
With Linux, you could get just what you want or need and it's gratis, courtesy of the community. With Windows, they decide on what you get and encourage you to live with it, even though you cough up lots of dough for it :)

by olyjohn 10y ago

wuschel 10y ago

And you are not alone. It has been too much. If not for certain high value programs that run best on a native system, I would not start the old VMWare-virtualized Windows 7 up again. There are sufficiently good (and cheap) solutions in the Linux community. First Microsoft has to fix what they have been doing wrong for years. And then then have to answer the question what additional value they are providing for the money a company has to pay for their "services". Hype articles can not undo evil.

mixmastamyk 10y ago

(for them to regain your trust)

dingo_bat 10y ago

> putting ads on my Start Menu. Or on my lock screen Anecdotal, but I haven't seen any ads in those places. Been using Win 10 since the preview. I'm not a fan of the "metro" interface/apps. I am a fan of the underlying tech in Windows and the general focus on usability and reliability. My laptop "just works" in every sense of the phrase, and it feels more responsive to my choices and demands than competing platforms (OSX and Ubuntu).

chadgeidel 10y ago
There are ads for Microsoft products in the app store and ads for Office on the start menu in "stock" Windows (installed from MSDN ISO - not from a hardware vendor). The lock screen has an (optional?) theme which displays high-res photos from Microsoft. Some of those photos have been game ads. I personally think it's unobtrusive, but the ads are there.
- flukus 10y ago
  The lock screen is especially annoying. They can show ads fine but it takes several seconds to start accepting input from my keyboard.
  - dingo_bat 10y ago
    I don't see the logic of a lock screen. Why doesn't it directly enter my password? Why must I swipe away the wallpaper to access the password box? I mean it's not like my phone that I wake up the laptop just to look at the lock screen notifications. If I wake up my laptop, I'm gonna unlock it! Really dumb ui.
    - flukus 10y ago
      Probably because it is the phone UI.
  - chadgeidel 10y ago
    I agree. Additionally (at least in my experience) - the steps to go through to show the password box are maddeningly different. Sometimes moving the mouse works, sometimes typing on the keyboard works, sometimes neither work and I have to use ctrl-alt-delete.
reitanqild 10y ago
I have seen both, once or twice months ago on my W10 Pro. [0] Now they just have new and ever updating artwork on my login screen and it is actually really nice. Often there is a link to "see more" or something in the top left corner and very often I click it and spend up to two minutes looking at nice photos on bing[1]. Yep. I know I have been binged, but i kinda like it, just don't try to search for programming questions, those belong on ddg, worst case with a !g appended. [0]: this is a bit shameful IMO, pushing ads on paying customers. Please Microsoft employees who hang around here: spread this inside MS, - don't spam paying customers!!! [1]: this is totally OK with me as long as you do it like you do today with a bit of taste. I actually enjoy it quite a bit. Hopefully it is easy to turn off for those who don't like it.

blub 10y ago

Microsoft is imitating Google and switching their business model to spyware-as-a-service. And almost everyone's falling for it, just like they did for Google.

digler999 10y ago

I agree the privacy and cripple ware issues are bad, but to me that pales in comparison to the decade-plus of shipping vulnerable code that allowed anyone to root your system by serving one bad ad or emailing you one jpeg. I can't fathom how many families lost their photos, or paid hundreds of dollars for a tech to run mbam. How many identities were stolen, how many small businesses lost money, how much productivity lost. All because of the license agreement absolving them of ALL liability and product guarantees. This is grave, it had a substantial negative impact,spanning over 10 years, and nothing was done about it. If there ever were an unforgivable offense, this was it.

Aldo_MX 10y ago
So... you're also going to hate Linux since they left Dirty Cow unpatched for 9 years? Get real, perfect and secure code doesn't exist.
- digler999 10y ago
  Then what are their customers paying for? You are aware that paying for something is a contract, presumably for a product or service of value. So effectively you consider the malware a value to the customer ? . You think ignoring security is acceptable?
  - Aldo_MX 10y ago
    An EULA is displayed the first time you turn your PC on (or during the Windows setup), if you had read it you would probably know what are you paying for. Anyway, I suggest you to read the Open Source licenses before hating on Windows about malware, all of them basically say: "If you break your computer it's not our fault", like the following excerpt from the GPL: This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. I don't condone malware, but it is pretty obvious that the most popular platform will be the most targeted by malware authors. Too many people fall for the "I don't need AV, I don't use Windows" fallacy, but every software is vulnerable. The best advice I can give you is the following one: Don't run untrusted code.

saosebastiao 10y ago

It's almost as if the Windows teams think they're still under Ballmer.

alexssung 10y ago

This. I'd like to emphasize the QA part and their using the public as beta testers (absolutely true and totally unacceptable). Microsoft's quality control on everything has been terrible lately, which is saying a lot because their quality control has always been crap. Good thing they have a great marketing team. They will keep producing cool looking ads and presentations that imitate Apple and hope that their customers will forget every buggy and disastrous launch

Aldo_MX 10y ago
I don't find the QA part that terrible, freeloaders are the kind of users that would pirate Windows, so rather than being a nuisance they're volunteering themselves to test the OS. Although it would had been better if they kept their QA teams, since there are issues that only a QA engineer would be able to find.

joesmo 10y ago

Monopoly can be forgiven. What's happening now cannot be forgiven. Microsoft is more dangerous now, but it seems people just don't care. They use Windows despite having no assurance that Microsoft won't copy their data unbeknownst to them or spy on them in some way they don't realize or install some software they don't want. If this is better, give me 90's Microsoft anytime. At least they were just out for profits and domination then. I don't know what they're after now, but considering the revelations of the past few years and what this "operating system" does, the fact that they're making this information available to dangerous third parties is almost guaranteed. The gullibility and stupidity of developers (like the author) is simply mind-boggling sometimes.

anexprogrammer 10y ago

I don't forgive the sneaky and forced migration to 10 meaning I get family support calls for the first time in ages. Or the hours spent sorting the laptop that's not fully compatible but got upgraded anyway. Last I don't forgive you for not finding a way that 7 can't bloody ruin 10 via chkdsk. Yet more family support. Just about everyone likes Aero, so they drop it, as it doesn't fit the failed one desktop, every platform cult. At least other flat gui's actually have some design rather than try to emulate Gem and just use 3 colours. Unlike Microsoft, I understand that's subjective. Mind, I never really forgave the world for adopting cooperative multitasking and the most horrific API and programming model I've encountered and that was 3.1. Scared me back to *nix for the rest of my career. Trust? Not likely I need to reach neutral first. I did quite like C# though, despite some wtf moments in the docs! :)

happy-go-lucky 10y ago

With Linux, you could get just what you want or need and it's gratis, courtesy of the community. With Windows, they decide on what you get and encourage you to live with it, even though you cough up lots of dough for it :)