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I strongly disagree. A PhD in the sciences or engineering is a degree in how to do research and it prepares people for careers in research or for careers that

I strongly disagree. A PhD in the sciences or engineering is a degree in how to do research and it prepares people for careers in research or for careers that require communicating research. If a person is only satisfied with being a professor at a R1 university, then don't do a PhD, but there are a ton of other jobs that require or greatly benefit from having one, e.g, teaching universities, NASA, government labs, many research oriented groups in companies (FAIR, Google Research, biomedical companies, etc.), science policy advising, etc. One needs to have clear expectations going into the PhD about what they are trying to do and they need to have clear communication with their advisor. The vast majority of PhDs in science and engineering do very well and find jobs, but most don't get professorships at research focused institutions. Having realistic expectations is key, but a career in research is great. A PhD is stressful and takes 5-6 years, but it can be a great experience with the correct expectations and a solid plan. The main problem is that most PhD students don't seem to think about those things nearly enough and have unreasonable expectations.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
>A PhD is stressful and takes 5-6 years, but it can be a great experience with the correct expectations and a solid plan. The main problem is that most PhD students don't seem to think about those things nearly enough and have unreasonable expectations. Honestly, I think the main problem is mostly that PhD students are, on the one hand, full-grown adults supporting themselves, and yet are, on the other hand, paid McDonalds wages to do the most intensive intellectual work our society has for Goldman Sachs hours.
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  I'm a PhD student, and I doubt I could have said it better. And depending on the field you're in, your only choice might be working as a postdoc until a suitable academic position opens up. Thankfully, there a way more options post-PhD in engineering.
- doctorsher 10y ago
  Damn. As a 4th year PhD student, this hit me hard. You've worded my feelings on academia better than I ever could. Edit: I see Cyph0n has beaten me by a few minutes. Oh well.
- scott_s 10y ago
  I've known people (with PhDs) who worked for Goldman Sachs. They considered the work-life balance to be much better than academia (and some industry). Co-signed on the rest, though.
nonbel 10y ago
>"a degree in how to do research" Well, here is how I was taught to do research: 1) You come up with a vague idea that one thing should be positively/negatively correlated with another thing. 2) You measure some proxies for those two things that have only been half-validated, if at all. 3) You make a bunch of dubious statistical assumptions and check whether there was *exactly zero* correlation between the two proxies. 4a) Your sample size was too small relative to the noisiness of the measurements and p>0.05. So you ignore the result. 4b) Your sample size was large enough, or you got lucky and p<0.05. So you publish saying these results support your theory or are counter-intuitive, depending on the direction of the correlation. Please do not think this is at all a critique of my institution/instructors, this is a (the?) method being taught as "science" worldwide. Basically, I have nothing to add that hasn't been said before about that method: http://www.fisme.science.uu.nl/staff/christianb/downloads/meehl1967.pdf http://www.fisme.science.uu.nl/staff/christianb/downloads/me... http://bml.bioe.uic.edu/BML/Stuff/Stuff_files/biologist%20fix%20radio.pdf http://bml.bioe.uic.edu/BML/Stuff/Stuff_files/biologist%20fi...
brokenmasonjars 10y ago
Regarding vast majorities of PhDs not getting jobs in professorships, I think this is just true for pretty much all PhD's no matter the subject..at least anecdotally speaking. I was given an offer to teach at a community college however I declined as I just don't really like teaching. Most of my peers joined government agencies or lobbyist firms due to the nature of the field (Public Policy.) I didn't find the PhD to be too stressful, from the jobs I left to enter education I suppose I was well adapted to stress management. That said I think it's a mix of adviser and individual's personality. I despise the work force (that is an understatement) and love learning. Part of the reason why I browse and lurk on HN as I love coming across stuff that I'm not at all oriented with. I don't think I'll become a programmer or anything..it's just I love learning even things I barely understand (e.g. Quantum anything!)

eli_gottlieb 10y ago

>A PhD is stressful and takes 5-6 years, but it can be a great experience with the correct expectations and a solid plan. The main problem is that most PhD students don't seem to think about those things nearly enough and have unreasonable expectations. Honestly, I think the main problem is mostly that PhD students are, on the one hand, full-grown adults supporting themselves, and yet are, on the other hand, paid McDonalds wages to do the most intensive intellectual work our society has for Goldman Sachs hours.

Cyph0n 10y ago
I'm a PhD student, and I doubt I could have said it better. And depending on the field you're in, your only choice might be working as a postdoc until a suitable academic position opens up. Thankfully, there a way more options post-PhD in engineering.
doctorsher 10y ago
Damn. As a 4th year PhD student, this hit me hard. You've worded my feelings on academia better than I ever could. Edit: I see Cyph0n has beaten me by a few minutes. Oh well.
scott_s 10y ago
I've known people (with PhDs) who worked for Goldman Sachs. They considered the work-life balance to be much better than academia (and some industry). Co-signed on the rest, though.

nonbel 10y ago

>"a degree in how to do research" Well, here is how I was taught to do research: 1) You come up with a vague idea that one thing should be positively/negatively correlated with another thing. 2) You measure some proxies for those two things that have only been half-validated, if at all. 3) You make a bunch of dubious statistical assumptions and check whether there was *exactly zero* correlation between the two proxies. 4a) Your sample size was too small relative to the noisiness of the measurements and p>0.05. So you ignore the result. 4b) Your sample size was large enough, or you got lucky and p<0.05. So you publish saying these results support your theory or are counter-intuitive, depending on the direction of the correlation. Please do not think this is at all a critique of my institution/instructors, this is a (the?) method being taught as "science" worldwide. Basically, I have nothing to add that hasn't been said before about that method: http://www.fisme.science.uu.nl/staff/christianb/downloads/meehl1967.pdf http://www.fisme.science.uu.nl/staff/christianb/downloads/me... http://bml.bioe.uic.edu/BML/Stuff/Stuff_files/biologist%20fix%20radio.pdf http://bml.bioe.uic.edu/BML/Stuff/Stuff_files/biologist%20fi...

brokenmasonjars 10y ago

Regarding vast majorities of PhDs not getting jobs in professorships, I think this is just true for pretty much all PhD's no matter the subject..at least anecdotally speaking. I was given an offer to teach at a community college however I declined as I just don't really like teaching. Most of my peers joined government agencies or lobbyist firms due to the nature of the field (Public Policy.) I didn't find the PhD to be too stressful, from the jobs I left to enter education I suppose I was well adapted to stress management. That said I think it's a mix of adviser and individual's personality. I despise the work force (that is an understatement) and love learning. Part of the reason why I browse and lurk on HN as I love coming across stuff that I'm not at all oriented with. I don't think I'll become a programmer or anything..it's just I love learning even things I barely understand (e.g. Quantum anything!)