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I would say "stay as far away from academic research as you possibly can" is the best advice someone can get these days. It is an awful, stressful waste of the

by nonbel 10y ago

I would say "stay as far away from academic research as you possibly can" is the best advice someone can get these days. It is an awful, stressful waste of the prime of your life. From what I saw in biomed only 1/10,000 or so will end up with the time, skills, and appropriately ambitious project to allow a decent job to get done. The rest will be forced to produce BS (literally, most of it is just misinformation at this point) or quit before even graduating.

BeetleB 10y ago
>I would say "stay as far away from academic research as you possibly can" is the best advice someone can get these days. It is an awful, stressful waste of the prime of your life. On the other hand, spending some years pursuing a PhD can be a great time to build skills and introspect in life. I grew a lot in that time in a way I don't think I would have with a job. Of course, if you have a very stressful advisor, it isn't worth it.
- nonbel 10y ago
  Actually, my adviser was quite laid back. As a result, I was able to build a lot of skills in order to complete my project. However, notice I said able. I had to self-teach and self-fund to do it, the academic stuff was really just an obstacle. I think something like a basic income would allow the a certain type of person to achieve the same, and do it much faster and cheaper than getting a higher degree. I wonder if that is one reason why most of these problems started when higher education/research became less of an "elite" activity, ie as discussed in subnaughts link in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12805406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12805406
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  > On the other hand, spending some years pursuing a PhD can be a great time to build skills and introspect in life. as software dev, I would never, ever, ever want to be in academia compared to the jobs I went through. much more life to be lived, much more money to spend on life to live (ie travelling around the world), and CV/skillset that gets door opened for next jobs. you can build proper introspect in life when trekking few weeks among 8000m peaks, diving in coral reefs or anything in between, just give it a bit more than 1-2 weeks. great PhD can be interesting experience, but for me, it would always be subpar to great job
- arethuza 10y ago
  Doing something like a PhD is a great place to find other people who might be interested in co-founding a startup! NB That's what I did after ~5 years in academic research at a UK university and never really regretted not finishing by PhD as I had no intention of going back into research.
chriskanan 10y ago
I strongly disagree. A PhD in the sciences or engineering is a degree in how to do research and it prepares people for careers in research or for careers that require communicating research. If a person is only satisfied with being a professor at a R1 university, then don't do a PhD, but there are a ton of other jobs that require or greatly benefit from having one, e.g, teaching universities, NASA, government labs, many research oriented groups in companies (FAIR, Google Research, biomedical companies, etc.), science policy advising, etc. One needs to have clear expectations going into the PhD about what they are trying to do and they need to have clear communication with their advisor. The vast majority of PhDs in science and engineering do very well and find jobs, but most don't get professorships at research focused institutions. Having realistic expectations is key, but a career in research is great. A PhD is stressful and takes 5-6 years, but it can be a great experience with the correct expectations and a solid plan. The main problem is that most PhD students don't seem to think about those things nearly enough and have unreasonable expectations.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  >A PhD is stressful and takes 5-6 years, but it can be a great experience with the correct expectations and a solid plan. The main problem is that most PhD students don't seem to think about those things nearly enough and have unreasonable expectations. Honestly, I think the main problem is mostly that PhD students are, on the one hand, full-grown adults supporting themselves, and yet are, on the other hand, paid McDonalds wages to do the most intensive intellectual work our society has for Goldman Sachs hours.
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    I'm a PhD student, and I doubt I could have said it better. And depending on the field you're in, your only choice might be working as a postdoc until a suitable academic position opens up. Thankfully, there a way more options post-PhD in engineering.
  - doctorsher 10y ago
    Damn. As a 4th year PhD student, this hit me hard. You've worded my feelings on academia better than I ever could. Edit: I see Cyph0n has beaten me by a few minutes. Oh well.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
letitgo12345 10y ago
I really really wish people would separate advice by field rather than unfairly tarnish all of academic research with an incredibly broad brush. I'm a PhD in CS and while a lot of results are incremental, there is far far far less BS than in biomed from what I've heard.

by nonbel 10y ago

BeetleB 10y ago

>I would say "stay as far away from academic research as you possibly can" is the best advice someone can get these days. It is an awful, stressful waste of the prime of your life. On the other hand, spending some years pursuing a PhD can be a great time to build skills and introspect in life. I grew a lot in that time in a way I don't think I would have with a job. Of course, if you have a very stressful advisor, it isn't worth it.

nonbel 10y ago
Actually, my adviser was quite laid back. As a result, I was able to build a lot of skills in order to complete my project. However, notice I said able. I had to self-teach and self-fund to do it, the academic stuff was really just an obstacle. I think something like a basic income would allow the a certain type of person to achieve the same, and do it much faster and cheaper than getting a higher degree. I wonder if that is one reason why most of these problems started when higher education/research became less of an "elite" activity, ie as discussed in subnaughts link in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12805406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12805406
saiya-jin 10y ago
> On the other hand, spending some years pursuing a PhD can be a great time to build skills and introspect in life. as software dev, I would never, ever, ever want to be in academia compared to the jobs I went through. much more life to be lived, much more money to spend on life to live (ie travelling around the world), and CV/skillset that gets door opened for next jobs. you can build proper introspect in life when trekking few weeks among 8000m peaks, diving in coral reefs or anything in between, just give it a bit more than 1-2 weeks. great PhD can be interesting experience, but for me, it would always be subpar to great job
arethuza 10y ago
Doing something like a PhD is a great place to find other people who might be interested in co-founding a startup! NB That's what I did after ~5 years in academic research at a UK university and never really regretted not finishing by PhD as I had no intention of going back into research.

chriskanan 10y ago

I strongly disagree. A PhD in the sciences or engineering is a degree in how to do research and it prepares people for careers in research or for careers that require communicating research. If a person is only satisfied with being a professor at a R1 university, then don't do a PhD, but there are a ton of other jobs that require or greatly benefit from having one, e.g, teaching universities, NASA, government labs, many research oriented groups in companies (FAIR, Google Research, biomedical companies, etc.), science policy advising, etc. One needs to have clear expectations going into the PhD about what they are trying to do and they need to have clear communication with their advisor. The vast majority of PhDs in science and engineering do very well and find jobs, but most don't get professorships at research focused institutions. Having realistic expectations is key, but a career in research is great. A PhD is stressful and takes 5-6 years, but it can be a great experience with the correct expectations and a solid plan. The main problem is that most PhD students don't seem to think about those things nearly enough and have unreasonable expectations.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
>A PhD is stressful and takes 5-6 years, but it can be a great experience with the correct expectations and a solid plan. The main problem is that most PhD students don't seem to think about those things nearly enough and have unreasonable expectations. Honestly, I think the main problem is mostly that PhD students are, on the one hand, full-grown adults supporting themselves, and yet are, on the other hand, paid McDonalds wages to do the most intensive intellectual work our society has for Goldman Sachs hours.
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  I'm a PhD student, and I doubt I could have said it better. And depending on the field you're in, your only choice might be working as a postdoc until a suitable academic position opens up. Thankfully, there a way more options post-PhD in engineering.
- doctorsher 10y ago
  Damn. As a 4th year PhD student, this hit me hard. You've worded my feelings on academia better than I ever could. Edit: I see Cyph0n has beaten me by a few minutes. Oh well.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

letitgo12345 10y ago

I really really wish people would separate advice by field rather than unfairly tarnish all of academic research with an incredibly broad brush. I'm a PhD in CS and while a lot of results are incremental, there is far far far less BS than in biomed from what I've heard.