11 ms·

I think being a multi-millionaire and being able to do whatever you want, including nothing, is the real key to being able to "find joy". I don't think it has a

I think being a multi-millionaire and being able to do whatever you want, including nothing, is the real key to being able to "find joy". I don't think it has anything to do with his "exercises". Take away his millions, have him struggle to pay for rising rents with kids to clothe and feed, and put him in a job that he can't afford to quit and where he has to struggle every day with a shitty boss and I guarantee his techniques won't work.

kelukelugames 10y ago
Take happiness advice from people richer than you is like taking dating advice from people better looking than you.
- colmvp 10y ago
  No no, the reason why you aren't getting hits on online dating is because your profile writeup isn't interesting, it has nothing to do with the fact that you aren't physically attractive!
- akman 10y ago
  While it's easier to doubt the advice in those circumstances, ad hominem is still a fallacy that shouldn't be discounted. The advice could still be sound.
- tasuki 10y ago
  The best dating advice I've received was from a guy much better looking than me. Being good looking helps one get the right mindset (but is not the key in itself). Still, there are plenty of good looking people who can't get laid and plenty of rich people who are unhappy.
CuriouslyC 10y ago
I guarantee there are people in that exact situation who are doing just fine. The same rain that drenches the dog rolls off the duck's back unnoticed. That being said, probably not a good idea to become responsible for other people before you've got your own life figured out.
- shuntress 10y ago
  In the case of the Dog and the Duck, the Duck has much more money (waterproof feathers) to deal with his problems. The same car crash that drenches the broke student rolls off the retired millionaire's back unnoticed. e: Of course, some people cope better than others regardless of the situation. But to imply that having more money doesn't make coping easier is simply foolish.
- jads 10y ago
  >That being said, probably not a good idea to become responsible for other people before you've got your own life figured out. That seems rather offensive and narrow-minded. Sometimes life has its surprises that weren't expected. Life can also throw us curveballs. One day you might feel like everything is going well but then something changes. I'm sure some of the 300 or so people at Twitter who are about to lose their jobs probably thought they had things figured out.
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    I think he mis-phrased "before you've got your own life figured out". I think he wanted to say that before you tell other people how to deal with problems you should have gone through some challenges yourself. For example: somebody who has joined google early (which I attribute mainly to luck) and made a lot of money should be careful telling people who are getting laid off how to be happy.
    - CuriouslyC 10y ago
      I was referring to becoming a parent before you're ready. That's like an overweight person getting on a treadmill for the first time and cranking it to a 6 minute mile pace. Of course you're going to be miserable, it's your own fault, you were foolish.
      - maxxxxx 10y ago
        How about: don't give parenting advice before you have raised a kid?
jaymzcampbell 10y ago
You nailed it AFAIC. I think there is a certain amount of this that can work to help but if you are trapped in the day to day then no amount of exercise like this will solve it. At best you'll just learn to "live with it". Having just gone (or going) through probably the worst year of my life the one thing that has helped me not to have a breakdown compared to when I went through a very similar phase 10 years ago is having a significant buffer of cash savings. This more than anything has allowed me to be happier with not feeling so trapped. I can only imagine if I had 100 times it I wouldn't even have to deal with the day to day stress of normal work. For me just taking part in society right now is tough but I know I could have it much worse.
drzaiusapelord 10y ago
Or the opposite, be someone who is taken care of by the government. The most relaxed people I've met were the welfare people in my old neighborhood. They had endless days of socializing, getting drunk/high, doing random bullshit, sleeping in, etc. Its the middle class that gets something of a bum deal. We work hard and pay a significant tax load and get to maybe enjoy our weekends and the occasional vacation, that is if we aren't too stressed out from work and can make time from our busy projects and responsibilities to actually take that vacation. Not sure where this comment is going, but its incredible how there's this taboo in corporate life, especially 'fun' workplaces like google, to admit that its all fairly soul-crushing. Buffets and memos from happiness gurus are part of the problem here. The solution is implementing 4 day workweeks, mandatory 8+ week vacation time, mandatory maternity/paternity, etc and start moving towards empowering people and making them happy via free time, lowered stress, and better work/life balance. Advice from happiness gurus is just window dressing on workaholic culture.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  It's like teaching meditation classes so people can handle their 60+ hour weeks calmly instead of getting stressed out. Just window dressing as you say.
- Raphmedia 10y ago
  The problem is that the people in the middle class try to live above their means. You have the choice of being the poorest of the rich or the richest of the poor. Of course being the poorest of the rich will make you miserable.
  - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
    Its still a meanginless rat race even if you make a special effort, like I do, to keep expenses low. I just had a 30% property tax raise and other little surprises this year. You can't just say "live economically." Shit happens and the people who get into financial trouble aren't often reckless. They just had a bad run of luck or a health issue or whatever. Even then I still need to work 40+ hours a day, handle a commute, handle work stress, handle work politics, etc.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
noonespecial 10y ago
Agreed. Seems like this advice factors down to "have lots of $$$; don't forget to stop and enjoy all the stuff the money can buy you in the free time that it gives you." Truth is, if you grab a soda from 7-11 on your mad dash from your BK job to your Wally-world job, you're just not going to be stopping and savoring it.
pizza234 10y ago
While it's good to critically revise such concepts, there are a few things worth nothing: 1. there is a spectrum of wealth. of course it's better to have millions rather than spiderwebs in the bank, but it's inappriate to use as reference, in reasoning, the exact opposite. 2. quite subtle: everybody has a boss. even if you're the CEO, it may be the board; or it's the clients (don't think that because you have a very successful product, the market demand aligns with your wishes); or it's even the managing position itself (what will happen two weeks after completely disconnecting from your ten thousands people company?). 3. people's standards increase with the salary, therefore everybody has to work to mantain such standards. you won't see a millionaire living in an 80 sqm apartment in the suburbs or moving around with bike (so to speak); therefore, even a millionaire will have to work. there are so many other small subtle misconceptions, but I think 2. and 3. are very important to keep in mind. don't get me wrong, it's been said and studied that a (minimum) position of middle/upper middle class relieves from many of the problems of the likeness you reference, while at the same time giving enough freedom in one's choices, but I think it's wise to separate the ability to prepare/make life choices which give freedom, from the perceiving wealth as the source of freedom. All IMHO!
- dsp1234 10y ago
  have him struggle to pay for rising rents with kids to clothe and feed, and put him in a job that he can't afford to quit and where he has to struggle every day with a shitty boss but it's inappriate to use as reference, in reasoning, the exact opposite. Note that it's not powerful argument because it's the 'opposite'. It's powerful because this is the reality for the many/most of Americans. The argument isn't 'take away everything', it's 'put him in the same position as most people'.
- scoot 10y ago
  > there are a few things worth nothing Freudian slip?
- randomdata 10y ago
  > you won't see a millionaire living in an 80 sqm apartment in the suburbs or moving around with bike (so to speak) I would have thought you'd be more likely to see a millionaire living in those conditions. You don't get rich by living extravagantly, you get rich by living on the bare minimum and investing the rest. Granted, a detached house could have been a good buy in the right market over the past while.
muse900 10y ago
Well said, employee 107 at Google, he must be wealthy by now. I got someone in my office that does those kind of exercises etc. I highly respect him, but as you said he has a kid and he has loads of things in his mind etc. Believe me once a car rental company charged him extra money for something and all the mindfulness and exercises went out of the window, he was unhappy by it and he seemed unhappy for a few days. While money is not everything and you can most certainly be happy without them, being able to provide what you deem necessary to your family is the most important thing.
- sliverstorm 10y ago
  Literally starving is a problem, as is being homeless. But the hedonic treadmill is real, and people's notions of what is necessary tend to scale with income. Being rich isn't, by itself, the key.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Happiness is feeling useful/having purpose (autonomy, mastery, purpose) [1], meeting your basic needs (~$75K/year research shows [2]), and spending time with friends and loved ones [3] [4]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc [2] http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628,00.html http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-of-the-dying https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-fiv... [4] http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/raising_happiness/post/happiness_is_being_socially_connected http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/raising_happiness/post/happi...
    - davidjnelson 10y ago
      Good stuff, but 75k seems awfully low when houses cost 2MM.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        Doesn't apply to some real estate locale outliers.
0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago
This begs the question, what experiment could you do to find out if his exercises work? Taking away his millions and giving him a lousy boss is one way, but perhaps there is another easier way that I'm just not thinking of right now.
- hariis 10y ago
  Practice what he says, nothing to lose except your worries, if he is right.
Raphmedia 10y ago
It's that exact mindset that is making you miserable. It's making excuses. "I can't be happy, I'm not millionaire! My misery is out of my own control!" ... That's simply bad faith. Edit: I've lived my entire childhood in my city's poorest neighbourhood. Everyone with a positive mindset got to experience joy. Money makes life easier but it won't change a bad mindset.
hariis 10y ago
If you think you know the "real key" to finding joy, then what made you read this article?
fanzhang 10y ago
Are you saying that more out of being upset that someone rich would dare to give average people advice about happiness? Or are you actively positively suggesting that wealth makes you happier, as in having more positive emotions, and therefore to be happy we ought to seek to earn more? Taking your comment at face value, I think this latter statement hasn't borne out to be true in the psychology literature. Wealth doesn't correlate strongly with positive affect, especially after a point.

kelukelugames 10y ago

Take happiness advice from people richer than you is like taking dating advice from people better looking than you.

colmvp 10y ago
No no, the reason why you aren't getting hits on online dating is because your profile writeup isn't interesting, it has nothing to do with the fact that you aren't physically attractive!
akman 10y ago
While it's easier to doubt the advice in those circumstances, ad hominem is still a fallacy that shouldn't be discounted. The advice could still be sound.
tasuki 10y ago
The best dating advice I've received was from a guy much better looking than me. Being good looking helps one get the right mindset (but is not the key in itself). Still, there are plenty of good looking people who can't get laid and plenty of rich people who are unhappy.

CuriouslyC 10y ago

I guarantee there are people in that exact situation who are doing just fine. The same rain that drenches the dog rolls off the duck's back unnoticed. That being said, probably not a good idea to become responsible for other people before you've got your own life figured out.

shuntress 10y ago
In the case of the Dog and the Duck, the Duck has much more money (waterproof feathers) to deal with his problems. The same car crash that drenches the broke student rolls off the retired millionaire's back unnoticed. e: Of course, some people cope better than others regardless of the situation. But to imply that having more money doesn't make coping easier is simply foolish.
jads 10y ago
>That being said, probably not a good idea to become responsible for other people before you've got your own life figured out. That seems rather offensive and narrow-minded. Sometimes life has its surprises that weren't expected. Life can also throw us curveballs. One day you might feel like everything is going well but then something changes. I'm sure some of the 300 or so people at Twitter who are about to lose their jobs probably thought they had things figured out.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  I think he mis-phrased "before you've got your own life figured out". I think he wanted to say that before you tell other people how to deal with problems you should have gone through some challenges yourself. For example: somebody who has joined google early (which I attribute mainly to luck) and made a lot of money should be careful telling people who are getting laid off how to be happy.
  - CuriouslyC 10y ago
    I was referring to becoming a parent before you're ready. That's like an overweight person getting on a treadmill for the first time and cranking it to a 6 minute mile pace. Of course you're going to be miserable, it's your own fault, you were foolish.
    - maxxxxx 10y ago
      How about: don't give parenting advice before you have raised a kid?

jaymzcampbell 10y ago

You nailed it AFAIC. I think there is a certain amount of this that can work to help but if you are trapped in the day to day then no amount of exercise like this will solve it. At best you'll just learn to "live with it". Having just gone (or going) through probably the worst year of my life the one thing that has helped me not to have a breakdown compared to when I went through a very similar phase 10 years ago is having a significant buffer of cash savings. This more than anything has allowed me to be happier with not feeling so trapped. I can only imagine if I had 100 times it I wouldn't even have to deal with the day to day stress of normal work. For me just taking part in society right now is tough but I know I could have it much worse.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago

Or the opposite, be someone who is taken care of by the government. The most relaxed people I've met were the welfare people in my old neighborhood. They had endless days of socializing, getting drunk/high, doing random bullshit, sleeping in, etc. Its the middle class that gets something of a bum deal. We work hard and pay a significant tax load and get to maybe enjoy our weekends and the occasional vacation, that is if we aren't too stressed out from work and can make time from our busy projects and responsibilities to actually take that vacation. Not sure where this comment is going, but its incredible how there's this taboo in corporate life, especially 'fun' workplaces like google, to admit that its all fairly soul-crushing. Buffets and memos from happiness gurus are part of the problem here. The solution is implementing 4 day workweeks, mandatory 8+ week vacation time, mandatory maternity/paternity, etc and start moving towards empowering people and making them happy via free time, lowered stress, and better work/life balance. Advice from happiness gurus is just window dressing on workaholic culture.

maxxxxx 10y ago
It's like teaching meditation classes so people can handle their 60+ hour weeks calmly instead of getting stressed out. Just window dressing as you say.
Raphmedia 10y ago
The problem is that the people in the middle class try to live above their means. You have the choice of being the poorest of the rich or the richest of the poor. Of course being the poorest of the rich will make you miserable.
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  Its still a meanginless rat race even if you make a special effort, like I do, to keep expenses low. I just had a 30% property tax raise and other little surprises this year. You can't just say "live economically." Shit happens and the people who get into financial trouble aren't often reckless. They just had a bad run of luck or a health issue or whatever. Even then I still need to work 40+ hours a day, handle a commute, handle work stress, handle work politics, etc.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

noonespecial 10y ago

Agreed. Seems like this advice factors down to "have lots of $$$; don't forget to stop and enjoy all the stuff the money can buy you in the free time that it gives you." Truth is, if you grab a soda from 7-11 on your mad dash from your BK job to your Wally-world job, you're just not going to be stopping and savoring it.

pizza234 10y ago

While it's good to critically revise such concepts, there are a few things worth nothing: 1. there is a spectrum of wealth. of course it's better to have millions rather than spiderwebs in the bank, but it's inappriate to use as reference, in reasoning, the exact opposite. 2. quite subtle: everybody has a boss. even if you're the CEO, it may be the board; or it's the clients (don't think that because you have a very successful product, the market demand aligns with your wishes); or it's even the managing position itself (what will happen two weeks after completely disconnecting from your ten thousands people company?). 3. people's standards increase with the salary, therefore everybody has to work to mantain such standards. you won't see a millionaire living in an 80 sqm apartment in the suburbs or moving around with bike (so to speak); therefore, even a millionaire will have to work. there are so many other small subtle misconceptions, but I think 2. and 3. are very important to keep in mind. don't get me wrong, it's been said and studied that a (minimum) position of middle/upper middle class relieves from many of the problems of the likeness you reference, while at the same time giving enough freedom in one's choices, but I think it's wise to separate the ability to prepare/make life choices which give freedom, from the perceiving wealth as the source of freedom. All IMHO!

dsp1234 10y ago
have him struggle to pay for rising rents with kids to clothe and feed, and put him in a job that he can't afford to quit and where he has to struggle every day with a shitty boss but it's inappriate to use as reference, in reasoning, the exact opposite. Note that it's not powerful argument because it's the 'opposite'. It's powerful because this is the reality for the many/most of Americans. The argument isn't 'take away everything', it's 'put him in the same position as most people'.
scoot 10y ago
> there are a few things worth nothing Freudian slip?
randomdata 10y ago
> you won't see a millionaire living in an 80 sqm apartment in the suburbs or moving around with bike (so to speak) I would have thought you'd be more likely to see a millionaire living in those conditions. You don't get rich by living extravagantly, you get rich by living on the bare minimum and investing the rest. Granted, a detached house could have been a good buy in the right market over the past while.

muse900 10y ago

Well said, employee 107 at Google, he must be wealthy by now. I got someone in my office that does those kind of exercises etc. I highly respect him, but as you said he has a kid and he has loads of things in his mind etc. Believe me once a car rental company charged him extra money for something and all the mindfulness and exercises went out of the window, he was unhappy by it and he seemed unhappy for a few days. While money is not everything and you can most certainly be happy without them, being able to provide what you deem necessary to your family is the most important thing.

sliverstorm 10y ago
Literally starving is a problem, as is being homeless. But the hedonic treadmill is real, and people's notions of what is necessary tend to scale with income. Being rich isn't, by itself, the key.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Happiness is feeling useful/having purpose (autonomy, mastery, purpose) [1], meeting your basic needs (~$75K/year research shows [2]), and spending time with friends and loved ones [3] [4]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc [2] http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628,00.html http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-of-the-dying https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-fiv... [4] http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/raising_happiness/post/happiness_is_being_socially_connected http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/raising_happiness/post/happi...
  - davidjnelson 10y ago
    Good stuff, but 75k seems awfully low when houses cost 2MM.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      Doesn't apply to some real estate locale outliers.

0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago

This begs the question, what experiment could you do to find out if his exercises work? Taking away his millions and giving him a lousy boss is one way, but perhaps there is another easier way that I'm just not thinking of right now.

hariis 10y ago
Practice what he says, nothing to lose except your worries, if he is right.

Raphmedia 10y ago

It's that exact mindset that is making you miserable. It's making excuses. "I can't be happy, I'm not millionaire! My misery is out of my own control!" ... That's simply bad faith. Edit: I've lived my entire childhood in my city's poorest neighbourhood. Everyone with a positive mindset got to experience joy. Money makes life easier but it won't change a bad mindset.

hariis 10y ago

If you think you know the "real key" to finding joy, then what made you read this article?

fanzhang 10y ago

Are you saying that more out of being upset that someone rich would dare to give average people advice about happiness? Or are you actively positively suggesting that wealth makes you happier, as in having more positive emotions, and therefore to be happy we ought to seek to earn more? Taking your comment at face value, I think this latter statement hasn't borne out to be true in the psychology literature. Wealth doesn't correlate strongly with positive affect, especially after a point.