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"Some will even charge you for their beta releases." I love the SproutCore versus Cappuccino battle. Two frameworks enter, one framework leaves.

by samd 16y ago

boucher 16y ago
Not really sure what that means. I don't think there has to be one winner, and we're glad to have more people in the market trying to realize our goal of desktop class web apps. But let's not kid ourselves. Cappuccino has two interface builders, Atlas and nib2cib+IB. Both of these have been used to ship commercial software. nib2cib is completely free and open source, it's been out about as long as Cappuccino has, and it runs together with Interface Builder, the best in breed tool for designing interfaces for the last 20 years. Greenhouse isn't even playing in the same game at this point.
- ynniv 16y ago
  I think he means that competition is good. It's been an exciting couple of years for JavaScript.
  - samd 16y ago
    That and I wanted to make a Mad Max reference. Both these frameworks are doing exciting and interesting things that will help change the web.
- devinus 16y ago
  I've already chosen which side of the fence I'm on, so with my bias in mind I'd like to say that I evaluated Cappuccino and nib2cib+IB before I settled with SproutCore. IB is the best of breed tool for creating interfaces, but the fact is nib2cib is nowhere near complete and many widgets failed to translate correctly or at all. I eventually gave up on it.
  - tolmasky 16y ago
    This is of course a function of when you tried it. Its been out for over a year now, and in that time we've built out support for a lot of the built in widgets, especially for our 0.8 release. Things like TableView work very well now (which last time I checked is a class that isn't even that well supported in SC at all). And again, the proof is ultimately in the pudding: most of the apps that are shipping today have used either nib2cib or Atlas, and we have very few users who don't begin development today straight from our nib2cib based projects.
    - devinus 16y ago
      Fair enough. I tried to keep my criticism firmly in the past tense too, because I wasn't sure how much love nib2cib has had since I evaluated it.
    - ynniv 16y ago
      The choice between SproutCore and Cappuccino is largely philosophical (port something that works, or build fresh with new perspective), and based on limited data. The way I see it, either choice is still a choice for a client side web framework, and that's a step in the right direction. For instance, Narwhal/CommonJS/SeedJS came out of these efforts, and benefit all involved.

"Some will even charge you for their beta releases." I love the SproutCore versus Cappuccino battle. Two frameworks enter, one framework leaves.

by samd 16y ago

"Some will even charge you for their beta releases." I love the SproutCore versus Cappuccino battle. Two frameworks enter, one framework leaves.

boucher 16y ago

Not really sure what that means. I don't think there has to be one winner, and we're glad to have more people in the market trying to realize our goal of desktop class web apps. But let's not kid ourselves. Cappuccino has two interface builders, Atlas and nib2cib+IB. Both of these have been used to ship commercial software. nib2cib is completely free and open source, it's been out about as long as Cappuccino has, and it runs together with Interface Builder, the best in breed tool for designing interfaces for the last 20 years. Greenhouse isn't even playing in the same game at this point.

ynniv 16y ago
I think he means that competition is good. It's been an exciting couple of years for JavaScript.
- samd 16y ago
  That and I wanted to make a Mad Max reference. Both these frameworks are doing exciting and interesting things that will help change the web.
devinus 16y ago
I've already chosen which side of the fence I'm on, so with my bias in mind I'd like to say that I evaluated Cappuccino and nib2cib+IB before I settled with SproutCore. IB is the best of breed tool for creating interfaces, but the fact is nib2cib is nowhere near complete and many widgets failed to translate correctly or at all. I eventually gave up on it.
- tolmasky 16y ago
  This is of course a function of when you tried it. Its been out for over a year now, and in that time we've built out support for a lot of the built in widgets, especially for our 0.8 release. Things like TableView work very well now (which last time I checked is a class that isn't even that well supported in SC at all). And again, the proof is ultimately in the pudding: most of the apps that are shipping today have used either nib2cib or Atlas, and we have very few users who don't begin development today straight from our nib2cib based projects.
  - devinus 16y ago
    Fair enough. I tried to keep my criticism firmly in the past tense too, because I wasn't sure how much love nib2cib has had since I evaluated it.
  - ynniv 16y ago
    The choice between SproutCore and Cappuccino is largely philosophical (port something that works, or build fresh with new perspective), and based on limited data. The way I see it, either choice is still a choice for a client side web framework, and that's a step in the right direction. For instance, Narwhal/CommonJS/SeedJS came out of these efforts, and benefit all involved.