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Cutting like this creates an environment of paranoia and completely destroys morale. Though perhaps employees at Goldman Sachs understand and accept this as the

by aedron 10y ago

Cutting like this creates an environment of paranoia and completely destroys morale. Though perhaps employees at Goldman Sachs understand and accept this as their terms of employment. Definitely something to bear in mind if considering a job there.

keyle 10y ago
I think the pay and the career move is definitely a strong argument for working there, despite of that. Also you could make the argument that it's the same for everyone there.
- yasth 10y ago
  Eh except if you can work there you can work at several other places in the financial industry, and the pay and future career benefits aren't that special if you are already in that league.
osullivj 10y ago
You're right - the employees accept the bargain. GS and many other banks run a force or stack ranked grading system. Those at the bottom are shown the door when there's a round of cuts. I know from first hand that after several rounds of cuts the people at the bottom of the stack rank are strong performers because all the duffers are long gone. A lot of politics surrounds the ranking system, so the results can be brutal. It's a Faustian pact accepted by all the players in the hope of getting those juicy bonuses. And I have even mentioned the complete lack of work life balance.
pc86 10y ago
At the risk of repeating the current top comment, does a 20-person layoff notice in a company is 34k with hundreds of open positions on their website really do anything to "completely destroy morale"?
- in_the_sticks 10y ago
  Did you read the article or just the top comment? The most recent layoff is 20 people. The total for this year is more like 500.
- mcguire 10y ago
  "Total employees, including consultants and part-time workers, fell 5.4 percent to 34,900."
lloyd-christmas 10y ago
> perhaps employees at Goldman Sachs understand and accept this This is the banking industry as a whole. Unless you have events like 2008, major banks just trade employees. None of them really care all that much about being fired. It's more of an inconvenience.
- chris11 10y ago
  So how does getting fired/finding a new job work when you get fired from a bank like GS? It seems like usually you job prospects and negotiation power are much better when you are already employed. I'd think a fired employee would at least lose out a lot of money while negotiating salary from not currently having a job.
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    If you're senior and respectable, you call a friend at a firm that's got open positions and they set you up. After all, you're competent and the firing is a reflection on GS more than you. They don't lowball you, because you'd either call another friend or take the job and then flip it into a better offer elsewhere - you're employable enough that "already employed" seems less significant. If you're new, you act like you're fresh out of college, slap GS on your resume, and hit up a bunch of banks. Someone will need you if you're good, and you won't get any more lowballed than you were for being junior anyway. You're in it to move up the ranks at this point regardless. Honestly, it plays out a bit like the Valley. If some regulation or move by Google crushes a startup, the people leaving it aren't particularly stigmatized, and there's too much competition to weaken their negotiating position much.
    - chris11 10y ago
      I was comparing it a little bit to tech. I had a friend graduate from college and get a very respectable five figure increase in his offer for converting him to full-time by looking around at other companies. I don't think he would have gotten it without looking around though.
  - lloyd-christmas 10y ago
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
The flip side of banks letting people go with ease is (a) higher compensation and (b) the ease with which rivals will hire. The banking job market is extremely liquid (unless you did something naughty).
kafkaesq 10y ago
Cutting like this creates an environment of paranoia and completely destroys morale. Data gathered from acquaintances who have worked at GS suggest that, unless you fit a certain "mold"... paranoia and various forms of psychic collateral damage basically come with the air you breathe, in that shop. So the atmosphere of suspicion you describe is already part of your "environment".

by aedron 10y ago

keyle 10y ago

I think the pay and the career move is definitely a strong argument for working there, despite of that. Also you could make the argument that it's the same for everyone there.

yasth 10y ago
Eh except if you can work there you can work at several other places in the financial industry, and the pay and future career benefits aren't that special if you are already in that league.

osullivj 10y ago

You're right - the employees accept the bargain. GS and many other banks run a force or stack ranked grading system. Those at the bottom are shown the door when there's a round of cuts. I know from first hand that after several rounds of cuts the people at the bottom of the stack rank are strong performers because all the duffers are long gone. A lot of politics surrounds the ranking system, so the results can be brutal. It's a Faustian pact accepted by all the players in the hope of getting those juicy bonuses. And I have even mentioned the complete lack of work life balance.

pc86 10y ago

At the risk of repeating the current top comment, does a 20-person layoff notice in a company is 34k with hundreds of open positions on their website really do anything to "completely destroy morale"?

in_the_sticks 10y ago
Did you read the article or just the top comment? The most recent layoff is 20 people. The total for this year is more like 500.
mcguire 10y ago
"Total employees, including consultants and part-time workers, fell 5.4 percent to 34,900."

lloyd-christmas 10y ago

> perhaps employees at Goldman Sachs understand and accept this This is the banking industry as a whole. Unless you have events like 2008, major banks just trade employees. None of them really care all that much about being fired. It's more of an inconvenience.

chris11 10y ago
So how does getting fired/finding a new job work when you get fired from a bank like GS? It seems like usually you job prospects and negotiation power are much better when you are already employed. I'd think a fired employee would at least lose out a lot of money while negotiating salary from not currently having a job.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  If you're senior and respectable, you call a friend at a firm that's got open positions and they set you up. After all, you're competent and the firing is a reflection on GS more than you. They don't lowball you, because you'd either call another friend or take the job and then flip it into a better offer elsewhere - you're employable enough that "already employed" seems less significant. If you're new, you act like you're fresh out of college, slap GS on your resume, and hit up a bunch of banks. Someone will need you if you're good, and you won't get any more lowballed than you were for being junior anyway. You're in it to move up the ranks at this point regardless. Honestly, it plays out a bit like the Valley. If some regulation or move by Google crushes a startup, the people leaving it aren't particularly stigmatized, and there's too much competition to weaken their negotiating position much.
  - chris11 10y ago
    I was comparing it a little bit to tech. I had a friend graduate from college and get a very respectable five figure increase in his offer for converting him to full-time by looking around at other companies. I don't think he would have gotten it without looking around though.
- lloyd-christmas 10y ago

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

The flip side of banks letting people go with ease is (a) higher compensation and (b) the ease with which rivals will hire. The banking job market is extremely liquid (unless you did something naughty).

kafkaesq 10y ago

Cutting like this creates an environment of paranoia and completely destroys morale. Data gathered from acquaintances who have worked at GS suggest that, unless you fit a certain "mold"... paranoia and various forms of psychic collateral damage basically come with the air you breathe, in that shop. So the atmosphere of suspicion you describe is already part of your "environment".