6 ms·

Microsoft Chrome

148 points by luu 10y ago

iotscale 10y ago
I think Chrome was (maybe still is?) also the name of Firefox's GUI or something like that. I remember being confused when Google Chrome first came out. Edit: I thought more about this and remembered someone on the Firefox Addons site complained that the author of "lesschrome" (an extension which hides the "chrome" automatically) was being jealous(!) of Google Chrome. Couldn't find the comment and the following funny discussion though.
- DaiPlusPlus 10y ago
  Historically "Chrome" refers to the shell of a web-browser that wraps the layout engine. Both Netscape and Microsoft used the word (internally at least) for this effect, while later Google would co-opt the term entirely for their product name. But yes, Firefox's user-stylesheet for XUL is called 'chrome.css' (or 'userchrome.css', I forget).
  - iotscale 10y ago
    TIL, thanks for the clarification.
    - sucrose 10y ago
      I miss being able to create chromeless browser windows in IE. You could complete control the GUI. I think it was removed because of security reasons of being able to trick users into thinking it was a native OS window.
      - iotscale 10y ago
        I guess you can do that even with a simple Windows Forms application that has a full size web view?
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  - myfonj 10y ago
    Yes, `userChrome.css` in `chrome` folder in Firefox user profile folder [0]. As opposed to `userContent.css` (located in the same directory) for injecting user level stylesheets to content document cascade. [0] http://kb.mozillazine.org/UserChrome.css http://kb.mozillazine.org/UserChrome.css
- Maakuth 10y ago
  Chrome is a common term that means the parts of application user interface that aren't representing the document (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_user_interface#User_interface_and_interaction_design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_user_interface#User_...). So window borders, menus, browser address bar, tabs and such. This is the meaning of the word used in Firefox.
  - iotscale 10y ago
    I guess that was my only exposure to it with that meaning, so I had assumed it was something specific to Firefox. Many others were too, I remember some people suggesting that Google stole the name Chrome from Firefox on some forums back when it first came out. Yes, it sounds ridiculous, especially in the light of this knowledge, I know.
  - tiglionabbit 10y ago
    Exactly. Which is why Google Chrome makes sense. If you think of the web app you're using as the primary application (Calendar, for example), instead of the browser, then the browser is just the chrome around it. And this is Chrome from Google (as opposed to the chrome from Firefox). And if you use Google in Chrome, it's the chrome around Google too. Since Google apps are web-based, they need Chrome, and since Google wants to give the best experience possible for their own apps, they'd like you to use the Google Chrome for Google. Ok I'm done.
    - nailer 10y ago
      > If you think of the web app you're using as the primary application (Calendar, for example), instead of the browser, then the browser is just the chrome around it. This goes even more if you considered how complex browser UIs were getting. Here's IE6: http://static.myce.com/images_posts/2014/12/myce-internet-explorer-6.jpg http://static.myce.com/images_posts/2014/12/myce-internet-ex... Oddly enough, Netscape 6 / Mozilla Browser seems to have been one of the first browsers to start paring down the UI - this looks a lot like Google Chrome today: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/Netscape_6.1.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/Netscape_6.1.... Which makes sense as Netscape 4 was doing things like adding a 'Shop' button to the browser toolbar.
- skrebbel 10y ago
  Google's name is a joke. When Chrome first came out, it hardly had any chrome, when compared to other browsers out there. Tabs in the title bar, a single text entry field, that's it. Everybody else had 150px of chrome before the web page started. So they called it after the thing it didn't have. Similarly, you can't see the pixels on a Chromebook Pixel and Google Glass are glasses without actual glasses.
  - kiliancs 10y ago
    It's not a joke. It's a smart choice that makes the brain think about the chrome's content, just like a frame implies a painting. A dictionary definition I found for the word is: "chromium-plated or other bright metallic trim, as on an automobile" [1]. [1] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/chrome http://www.dictionary.com/browse/chrome
    - mrec 10y ago
      Exactly. In a very similar vein, Gravity is possibly my favourite movie name of all time. (Along with its tagline, "Don't let go", which is the exact opposite of appropriate for most of the movie.) Some names have a good reason for looking silly at first glance.
      - shuntress 10y ago
        Side note: Gravity is such a great movie. I love it's simplicity. It's a monster movie with (essentially) 2 characters and the setting is the monster. Then brings this incredibly simple vision to life without feeling sparse or experimental. This even extends to the title:tagline as you mention. Four words, "Gravity: Don't let go", efficiently conveys the whole tone of the film.
    - dkural 10y ago
      I believe the person you are replying to did not literally mean it's a joke. "Tongue-in-cheek".
petepete 10y ago
And Buzz, which was a social network with no people.
- mooman219 10y ago
  Absolutely barbaric
- JeremyMorgan 10y ago
  #Savage
- mattkevan 10y ago
  And Google Plus, which was worse.
  - iotscale 10y ago
    Which didn't add any value for most people but made them remove the plus operator in its useful form, from Google search.
    - colejohnson66 10y ago
      The minus operator is still there. (Until we get Google- that is)
- belltaco 10y ago
  Not for lack of trying though, they used so many extremely dark patterns to push Buzz onto Gmail users and violate privacy by showing your contacts to your other contacts that they got sued over them and actually settled. http://gizmodo.com/5679912/every-gmail-user-in-the-world-just-won-a-settlement-against-google-and-got-nothing http://gizmodo.com/5679912/every-gmail-user-in-the-world-jus...
- skoczymroczny 10y ago
  Don't forget Wave, which fell flat
blackbeard334 10y ago
This fantastic book talks extensively about it. https://www.amazon.com/Renegades-Empire-Software-Revolution-Microsoft/dp/0609604163 https://www.amazon.com/Renegades-Empire-Software-Revolution-...
laurent123456 10y ago
Some example code there: http://cdserv.wbut.ac.in/81-203-1773-4/workshop/imedia/chromeffects/overview/creating_chromeffects_in_html.htm http://cdserv.wbut.ac.in/81-203-1773-4/workshop/imedia/chrom... <OBJECT ID="Chromeffects" WIDTH=512 HEIGHT=512 CLASSID="CLSID:8A2A7F99-09DA-11D1-B33A-00A0C90A8FB6">  </OBJECT>
- majewsky 10y ago
  I always love when my code shouts at me.
- Asooka 10y ago
  Is that an XML document in an HTML comment inside an OBJECT tag? eww
  - est 10y ago
    Don't forget XML Data islands. https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_XML_Data_Islands_in_Mozilla https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_XML_Data_Islands... You can write HTML literals directly in Javascript in an ancient version of Firefox I forgot its name it's similar to JSX Edit: It's called E4X. Thanks @woogley
    - woogley 10y ago
      E4X: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Web/E4X https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Web/E4X
      - dorianm 10y ago
        And with examples: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Web/E4X/Processing_XML_with_E4X https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Web/E4X/Pro... It's crazy how similar this is with JSX
slippy 10y ago
Historical footnote: The teams of people weren't killed with VizAct. They just moved around a bit. Some of them went to PowerPoint, and others went to Windows. PowerPoint 97 gained an animation engine with effects, and Windows ME and XP gained animations in the shell, which was basically written in some form of XML. Office eventually used the XML annotation technology to produce the ribbon UI.
rubyfan 10y ago
I was literally just thinking about this last night. I found a CD from the MS Chrome Beta program in my garage with some other MS beta stuff and maybe even some Solaris x86 CD and OpenBSD CDs from late 90s / early 2000s. It was like finding gold! I think I had something like Pentium 200 or maybe even an AMD K2 or K3 233 or 266 at that time and this thing struggled with Chrome. I want to say the minimum requirement was a Pentium 350mhz. I think I had 1 or 2 CD beta release before the program was axed.
- mrpippy 10y ago
  betaarchive.com might be interested in that CD if they don't have it already
codeisawesome 10y ago
Today's dose of "WRONG", received.
sulam 10y ago
I worked on this! Not at MSFT, as a consultant building stuff that used it. The Javascript API didn't allow you to do transforms with matrices, you had to translate, scale, rotate things in separate calls. This was the bane of my existence for a couple months, trying to get 3DS models to animate correctly. I learned a lot more math than I expected to on that project. :)

148 points by luu 10y ago

I think Chrome was (maybe still is?) also the name of Firefox's GUI or something like that. I remember being confused when Google Chrome first came out. Edit: I thought more about this and remembered someone on the Firefox Addons site complained that the author of "lesschrome" (an extension which hides the "chrome" automatically) was being jealous(!) of Google Chrome. Couldn't find the comment and the following funny discussion though.

DaiPlusPlus 10y ago
Historically "Chrome" refers to the shell of a web-browser that wraps the layout engine. Both Netscape and Microsoft used the word (internally at least) for this effect, while later Google would co-opt the term entirely for their product name. But yes, Firefox's user-stylesheet for XUL is called 'chrome.css' (or 'userchrome.css', I forget).
- iotscale 10y ago
  TIL, thanks for the clarification.
  - sucrose 10y ago
    I miss being able to create chromeless browser windows in IE. You could complete control the GUI. I think it was removed because of security reasons of being able to trick users into thinking it was a native OS window.
    - iotscale 10y ago
      I guess you can do that even with a simple Windows Forms application that has a full size web view?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- myfonj 10y ago
  Yes, `userChrome.css` in `chrome` folder in Firefox user profile folder [0]. As opposed to `userContent.css` (located in the same directory) for injecting user level stylesheets to content document cascade. [0] http://kb.mozillazine.org/UserChrome.css http://kb.mozillazine.org/UserChrome.css
Maakuth 10y ago
Chrome is a common term that means the parts of application user interface that aren't representing the document (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_user_interface#User_interface_and_interaction_design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_user_interface#User_...). So window borders, menus, browser address bar, tabs and such. This is the meaning of the word used in Firefox.
- iotscale 10y ago
  I guess that was my only exposure to it with that meaning, so I had assumed it was something specific to Firefox. Many others were too, I remember some people suggesting that Google stole the name Chrome from Firefox on some forums back when it first came out. Yes, it sounds ridiculous, especially in the light of this knowledge, I know.
- tiglionabbit 10y ago
  Exactly. Which is why Google Chrome makes sense. If you think of the web app you're using as the primary application (Calendar, for example), instead of the browser, then the browser is just the chrome around it. And this is Chrome from Google (as opposed to the chrome from Firefox). And if you use Google in Chrome, it's the chrome around Google too. Since Google apps are web-based, they need Chrome, and since Google wants to give the best experience possible for their own apps, they'd like you to use the Google Chrome for Google. Ok I'm done.
  - nailer 10y ago
    > If you think of the web app you're using as the primary application (Calendar, for example), instead of the browser, then the browser is just the chrome around it. This goes even more if you considered how complex browser UIs were getting. Here's IE6: http://static.myce.com/images_posts/2014/12/myce-internet-explorer-6.jpg http://static.myce.com/images_posts/2014/12/myce-internet-ex... Oddly enough, Netscape 6 / Mozilla Browser seems to have been one of the first browsers to start paring down the UI - this looks a lot like Google Chrome today: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/Netscape_6.1.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/Netscape_6.1.... Which makes sense as Netscape 4 was doing things like adding a 'Shop' button to the browser toolbar.
skrebbel 10y ago
Google's name is a joke. When Chrome first came out, it hardly had any chrome, when compared to other browsers out there. Tabs in the title bar, a single text entry field, that's it. Everybody else had 150px of chrome before the web page started. So they called it after the thing it didn't have. Similarly, you can't see the pixels on a Chromebook Pixel and Google Glass are glasses without actual glasses.
- kiliancs 10y ago
  It's not a joke. It's a smart choice that makes the brain think about the chrome's content, just like a frame implies a painting. A dictionary definition I found for the word is: "chromium-plated or other bright metallic trim, as on an automobile" [1]. [1] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/chrome http://www.dictionary.com/browse/chrome
  - mrec 10y ago
    Exactly. In a very similar vein, Gravity is possibly my favourite movie name of all time. (Along with its tagline, "Don't let go", which is the exact opposite of appropriate for most of the movie.) Some names have a good reason for looking silly at first glance.
    - shuntress 10y ago
      Side note: Gravity is such a great movie. I love it's simplicity. It's a monster movie with (essentially) 2 characters and the setting is the monster. Then brings this incredibly simple vision to life without feeling sparse or experimental. This even extends to the title:tagline as you mention. Four words, "Gravity: Don't let go", efficiently conveys the whole tone of the film.
  - dkural 10y ago
    I believe the person you are replying to did not literally mean it's a joke. "Tongue-in-cheek".

petepete 10y ago

And Buzz, which was a social network with no people.

mooman219 10y ago
Absolutely barbaric
JeremyMorgan 10y ago
#Savage
mattkevan 10y ago
And Google Plus, which was worse.
- iotscale 10y ago
  Which didn't add any value for most people but made them remove the plus operator in its useful form, from Google search.
  - colejohnson66 10y ago
    The minus operator is still there. (Until we get Google- that is)
belltaco 10y ago
Not for lack of trying though, they used so many extremely dark patterns to push Buzz onto Gmail users and violate privacy by showing your contacts to your other contacts that they got sued over them and actually settled. http://gizmodo.com/5679912/every-gmail-user-in-the-world-just-won-a-settlement-against-google-and-got-nothing http://gizmodo.com/5679912/every-gmail-user-in-the-world-jus...
skoczymroczny 10y ago
Don't forget Wave, which fell flat

blackbeard334 10y ago

This fantastic book talks extensively about it. https://www.amazon.com/Renegades-Empire-Software-Revolution-Microsoft/dp/0609604163 https://www.amazon.com/Renegades-Empire-Software-Revolution-...

laurent123456 10y ago

Some example code there: http://cdserv.wbut.ac.in/81-203-1773-4/workshop/imedia/chromeffects/overview/creating_chromeffects_in_html.htm http://cdserv.wbut.ac.in/81-203-1773-4/workshop/imedia/chrom... <OBJECT ID="Chromeffects" WIDTH=512 HEIGHT=512 CLASSID="CLSID:8A2A7F99-09DA-11D1-B33A-00A0C90A8FB6">  </OBJECT>

majewsky 10y ago
I always love when my code shouts at me.
Asooka 10y ago
Is that an XML document in an HTML comment inside an OBJECT tag? eww
- est 10y ago
  Don't forget XML Data islands. https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_XML_Data_Islands_in_Mozilla https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_XML_Data_Islands... You can write HTML literals directly in Javascript in an ancient version of Firefox I forgot its name it's similar to JSX Edit: It's called E4X. Thanks @woogley
  - woogley 10y ago
    E4X: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Web/E4X https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Web/E4X
    - dorianm 10y ago
      And with examples: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Web/E4X/Processing_XML_with_E4X https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Web/E4X/Pro... It's crazy how similar this is with JSX

slippy 10y ago

Historical footnote: The teams of people weren't killed with VizAct. They just moved around a bit. Some of them went to PowerPoint, and others went to Windows. PowerPoint 97 gained an animation engine with effects, and Windows ME and XP gained animations in the shell, which was basically written in some form of XML. Office eventually used the XML annotation technology to produce the ribbon UI.

rubyfan 10y ago

I was literally just thinking about this last night. I found a CD from the MS Chrome Beta program in my garage with some other MS beta stuff and maybe even some Solaris x86 CD and OpenBSD CDs from late 90s / early 2000s. It was like finding gold! I think I had something like Pentium 200 or maybe even an AMD K2 or K3 233 or 266 at that time and this thing struggled with Chrome. I want to say the minimum requirement was a Pentium 350mhz. I think I had 1 or 2 CD beta release before the program was axed.

mrpippy 10y ago
betaarchive.com might be interested in that CD if they don't have it already

codeisawesome 10y ago

Today's dose of "WRONG", received.

sulam 10y ago

I worked on this! Not at MSFT, as a consultant building stuff that used it. The Javascript API didn't allow you to do transforms with matrices, you had to translate, scale, rotate things in separate calls. This was the bane of my existence for a couple months, trying to get 3DS models to animate correctly. I learned a lot more math than I expected to on that project. :)