4 ms·

Literally every single person I know that's voting for Trump (and there's a lot of them) has no problem with same-sex marriage, or any other LGBTQ issue for tha

by gragas 10y ago

Literally every single person I know that's voting for Trump (and there's a lot of them) has no problem with same-sex marriage, or any other LGBTQ issue for that matter. The people voting for Trump are the people voting 1. Against corruption 2. For specific values of the Republican party, primarily these three things---in no particular order: (a) lower taxes, less government (b) tighter immigration (c) preservation of conservative culture and the constitution. I am a bleeding liberal when it comes to almost all social issues. But I share the GOP's principles as they relate to fiscal policy and the boundaries of the government.

norea-armozel 10y ago
And literally every Trump supporter I've talked to online opposes anti-discrimination laws protecting LGBT people like me. So don't expect me to be nice to them or to associate with them. Sorry but my life, my time, my money, my way or the highway. If that frightens them then they shouldn't try to talk to me in the first place.
- gragas 10y ago
  Peter Thiel and I are both LGBT people and we both oppose those laws. It's not that we "hate gays" or can't tolerate LGBT. Of course not. We simply disagree with the laws for other reasons (mostly government over-reach and constitutional issues).
  - norea-armozel 10y ago
    you seem to be missing the point. If you oppose civil rights protections for LGBT people but support them for non-LGBT people then you're a hypocrite. But more so you're also for the same socioeconomic system that supports oppression of minorities which means you're acting against your self interest and that of others. And throwing out that you're LGBT doesn't exempt you from criticism from anyone especially me since I'm a bi trans woman. So trying that "but I'm LGBT how can I vote against my self interests" meme doesn't mean much when your ideology opposes individual freedom and the protection thereof.
    - gragas 10y ago
      I simply disagree. I don't believe there is systemic racism or systemic discrimination. If you provide evidence that there is systemic discrimination I would love to see it. Mostly all I've seen is people blaming "the system" for all their failings in life when in reality, no one gives a fuck about what they look like or what their skin color is. This is just like BLM. I am absolutely opposed to racism. I just don't think it exists to the extent that BLM activists think it does. The FBI and numerous other reputable organizations release information about crime and discrimination each year, and absolutely none of it provides evidence in favor of "systemic inequality" against minorities. In fact, it has always done the opposite. It has always shown that minorities commit overwhelmingly more violent crime against non-minorities than the other way around. But that's beside the point. The point I'm trying to make is this: no one cares that you're trans. And no one cares that I'm bi. We all have the same rights. We don't need to be granted more "civil rights" because we fall into some group. Blaming the system is simply not valid unless you can provide evidence.
      - norea-armozel 10y ago
        My comment has nothing to do with systemic anything. It has to do with the fact that we have laws on the books protecting people on the basis of race, sex, religion, and political affiliation. Are you saying you think those laws are a bad idea? If so, then we can't have kind of discussion here. Those civil rights are a bare minimum for me to consider any social conservative's opinion. If you don't agree to those terms then move on.
        gragas 10y ago
        You said: >system that supports oppression of minorities which means you're acting against your self interest and that of others To which I said that I don't think we're in a system that does that. I don't think we're "oppressed by the system". I work with trans people and gay people. I'm LGBT myself. Everyone is paid the same. No one cares that some of us are "minorities".
        10y ago

by gragas 10y ago

norea-armozel 10y ago

And literally every Trump supporter I've talked to online opposes anti-discrimination laws protecting LGBT people like me. So don't expect me to be nice to them or to associate with them. Sorry but my life, my time, my money, my way or the highway. If that frightens them then they shouldn't try to talk to me in the first place.

gragas 10y ago
Peter Thiel and I are both LGBT people and we both oppose those laws. It's not that we "hate gays" or can't tolerate LGBT. Of course not. We simply disagree with the laws for other reasons (mostly government over-reach and constitutional issues).
- norea-armozel 10y ago
  you seem to be missing the point. If you oppose civil rights protections for LGBT people but support them for non-LGBT people then you're a hypocrite. But more so you're also for the same socioeconomic system that supports oppression of minorities which means you're acting against your self interest and that of others. And throwing out that you're LGBT doesn't exempt you from criticism from anyone especially me since I'm a bi trans woman. So trying that "but I'm LGBT how can I vote against my self interests" meme doesn't mean much when your ideology opposes individual freedom and the protection thereof.
  - gragas 10y ago
    I simply disagree. I don't believe there is systemic racism or systemic discrimination. If you provide evidence that there is systemic discrimination I would love to see it. Mostly all I've seen is people blaming "the system" for all their failings in life when in reality, no one gives a fuck about what they look like or what their skin color is. This is just like BLM. I am absolutely opposed to racism. I just don't think it exists to the extent that BLM activists think it does. The FBI and numerous other reputable organizations release information about crime and discrimination each year, and absolutely none of it provides evidence in favor of "systemic inequality" against minorities. In fact, it has always done the opposite. It has always shown that minorities commit overwhelmingly more violent crime against non-minorities than the other way around. But that's beside the point. The point I'm trying to make is this: no one cares that you're trans. And no one cares that I'm bi. We all have the same rights. We don't need to be granted more "civil rights" because we fall into some group. Blaming the system is simply not valid unless you can provide evidence.
    - norea-armozel 10y ago
      My comment has nothing to do with systemic anything. It has to do with the fact that we have laws on the books protecting people on the basis of race, sex, religion, and political affiliation. Are you saying you think those laws are a bad idea? If so, then we can't have kind of discussion here. Those civil rights are a bare minimum for me to consider any social conservative's opinion. If you don't agree to those terms then move on.
      - gragas 10y ago
        You said: >system that supports oppression of minorities which means you're acting against your self interest and that of others To which I said that I don't think we're in a system that does that. I don't think we're "oppressed by the system". I work with trans people and gay people. I'm LGBT myself. Everyone is paid the same. No one cares that some of us are "minorities".
        10y ago