5 ms·

I have ADHD, meaning that open office is great to distract me... But also, one of the symptons of ADHD, with the "H" there, is that people must move, in my par

by speeder 10y ago

I have ADHD, meaning that open office is great to distract me... But also, one of the symptons of ADHD, with the "H" there, is that people must move, in my particular case one of the things I tend to do is tap my nails on the desk, use tupperware as drums, or if a actual musical instrument is nearby, even if I dunno how to play it, I play it. So, ADHD person in open office not only has terrible productivity due to other people disrupting, but also disrupts everyone else. To me this is terrible, since now that I know all this (and I've been fired multiple times), I've been trying, and failing, to find remote work.

Grishnakh 10y ago
It's too bad people like you can't sue for millions because these stupid companies have such intolerable office environments. I can't think of anything else that's going to get these stupid companies to change their ways. Things used to be a lot better 15+ years ago, when we had cubicles. It wasn't a panacea (since you could still hear your neighbors), but the cube farms I've worked in were much quieter than these idiotic open-plan offices, and it was so much easier to concentrate.
- compuguy 10y ago
  Those in some places are going away (cubicles) because of companies consolidating spaces to pack more people in.
- Jaruzel 10y ago
  Here in the UK, they just skipped the cubicle stage altogether and cut from smaller offices to massive open-plan floors in one fell swoop about 20 years ago ... :(
silencio 10y ago
I have ADHD too. Have you looked into fidget toys? They dramatically cut down on my toe-tapping and fidgeting. Also the incidence of distracting fidgeting goes down when I'm at a good level of meds+therapy. I might also add that (this obviously depends on local laws but) you can see if there's any disability protections you can take advantage of. Where your company can work with you to help you work better, or at worst, at least, not fire you just over a disability.
mgkimsal 10y ago
but think of all the money they saved on the office space!
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Are modern open space offices actually cheaper? Just the costs of the decor and other accommodations would probably outweigh the costs of having internal walls and maybe a tab bit more floor space (even tho I have a strong suspicion that traditional offices are actually more space friendly). Cubicles and small team offices do not take much more space, in fact they can often be more space friendly since there isn't that much open space needed in order for the office not to feel like a sweatshop and you also save a lot of space on quiet rooms and meeting rooms.
  - mgkimsal 10y ago
    duct work for ventilating multiple smaller offices properly is problematic vs just having one big open space. I'm not sure what fire codes may have to say about it either. ventilation was one issue that was brought up to me years ago when asked for input on a new office revamp. Somehow the owners and exec team still all managed to get new private offices with ventilation, but the dev team didn't...
    - mrweasel 10y ago
      I'm almost certain that it's legal in US to have people work in a windowless room, but I doubt that most people would accept it. So you're also restricted in how "deep" your building can be, if you discard the open office plan. Meaning that you'd have to build higher, or have more buildings.
      - mgkimsal 10y ago
        our coworking space is almost all windowless - I don't mind, others don't mind (or are still members, despite it). But we've still got ventilation in each room - it would get unbearable quickly without decent HVAC.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
brazzledazzle 10y ago
One important thing to note for people reading this is that hyperactivity doesn't always persist into adulthood with the other symptoms or is greatly reduced and is often turned inward (mental fidgeting). As far as your firings go, if you haven't watched this video and/or read this doctor's books they really help with understanding exactly what you're dealing with: https://youtu.be/SCAGc-rkIfo https://youtu.be/SCAGc-rkIfo It's long but worth watching at faster playback speed and in manageable chunks. Key takeaways: "Attention deficit" is less of a symptom and more of a measurable consequence of other symptoms: Impaired inhibition/impulse control, excessive irrelevant activity and impaired persistence (think discipline). Once you understand why you fail you can start addressing or working around your gaps, particularly the ones that any medication you may be on fail to address.
- daodedickinson 10y ago
  video not found?
  - brazzledazzle 10y ago
    Oops, edited. Thanks. It's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo
    - taneq 10y ago
      Very interesting video, thanks! I just got up to the part where he basically says that people with ADHD basically don't have an inner monologue. Is that right? If so why have I never heard this before?
      - Joof 10y ago
        That sound horrendously wrong. Maybe for certain things we don't notice, but I have an inner monologue nearly 100% of the time (alongside other types of thought).
        10y ago
driverdan 10y ago
You've recognized some of the problems you encounter with ADHD. Have you attempted to take corrective action? Instead of having hard objects around that make noise have something soft to play with. In the end you're responsible for your actions.
- MaulingMonkey 10y ago
  > Have you attempted to take corrective action? Easier said than done I suspect - people aren't necessarily aware of their own subconscious fidgeting when it's happening. How do you even build awareness of what you're doing subconsciously? When my cubical desk is shaking like I'm in an earthquake because a coworker in a connected desk is bouncing their leg, they're more than happy to knock it off when I ask them to. That they were doing it in the first place takes them by surprise. This happens often enough to be distracting, but rarely enough that it's hard to build a habit of catching themselves in the act. I suppose one could build some kind of seismometer and attach it to an audio cue, but starting on a new hardware projects isn't exactly less of a distraction... and I'm not exactly immune to the siren call of bouncing my leg, either. > In the end you're responsible for your actions. Sure. But my take on open offices, is that they're distraction-inducing by design. Most of the rationale around them - aside from cost cutting - seems to be around such things as "It's easier to talk to people" / "see what they're working on" / ... Who's responsible for the action of creating that environment?
Joof 10y ago
Came here to say this. The fidgets are known to help with focus and thought, so if I can't fidget, I work noticeably more poorly. It's very difficult to notice them already. Oddly enough, I can be very helpful to others in an open space, but I've never managed to get my own work done.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
keithpeter 10y ago
I know this is tricky but have you ever tried explaining the condition at an interview? Along the lines of 'it would be best if I had a seat in an enclosed space for at least part of the day'.
- mrweasel 10y ago
  Unless a person have skills that are in extreme demand, I'm certain that the result would be that you're either not given the job, or you promised that the company will work something out, but never actually act upon it. It's not that I believe that companies are evil in that sense. It's just more stuff to deal with, stuff that's not really important to anyone but that single employee.
- paddy_m 10y ago
  I have done this many times. I generally wait until after the offer has been made. At that point the company is convinced in my work output. They should want to maximize their investment. My hope is that asking for specific work accommodations to maximize performance comes across as conscientious and carrying about the value I deliver. I phrase it along the lines of "I have trouble concentrating, so if I have to work in an open office environment I would perform the best if I face a wall".
Gigablah 10y ago
I wonder if something like this would help: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/antsylabs/fidget-cube-a-vinyl-desk-toy https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/antsylabs/fidget-cube-a...
- animal531 10y ago
  That looks pretty cool. My favourite home/office made finger toys are when you take 2 of the little plastic protectors off of the ports of screencards (and/or cables). They're a great size to stick your fingers a bit into and they usually fit inside each other nicely (it's ok if they're loose, but really great if they stick nicely). They're pretty durable too, unless if you play too hard they can last a very long time.

by speeder 10y ago

Grishnakh 10y ago

It's too bad people like you can't sue for millions because these stupid companies have such intolerable office environments. I can't think of anything else that's going to get these stupid companies to change their ways. Things used to be a lot better 15+ years ago, when we had cubicles. It wasn't a panacea (since you could still hear your neighbors), but the cube farms I've worked in were much quieter than these idiotic open-plan offices, and it was so much easier to concentrate.

compuguy 10y ago
Those in some places are going away (cubicles) because of companies consolidating spaces to pack more people in.
Jaruzel 10y ago
Here in the UK, they just skipped the cubicle stage altogether and cut from smaller offices to massive open-plan floors in one fell swoop about 20 years ago ... :(

silencio 10y ago

I have ADHD too. Have you looked into fidget toys? They dramatically cut down on my toe-tapping and fidgeting. Also the incidence of distracting fidgeting goes down when I'm at a good level of meds+therapy. I might also add that (this obviously depends on local laws but) you can see if there's any disability protections you can take advantage of. Where your company can work with you to help you work better, or at worst, at least, not fire you just over a disability.

mgkimsal 10y ago

but think of all the money they saved on the office space!

dogma1138 10y ago
Are modern open space offices actually cheaper? Just the costs of the decor and other accommodations would probably outweigh the costs of having internal walls and maybe a tab bit more floor space (even tho I have a strong suspicion that traditional offices are actually more space friendly). Cubicles and small team offices do not take much more space, in fact they can often be more space friendly since there isn't that much open space needed in order for the office not to feel like a sweatshop and you also save a lot of space on quiet rooms and meeting rooms.
- mgkimsal 10y ago
  duct work for ventilating multiple smaller offices properly is problematic vs just having one big open space. I'm not sure what fire codes may have to say about it either. ventilation was one issue that was brought up to me years ago when asked for input on a new office revamp. Somehow the owners and exec team still all managed to get new private offices with ventilation, but the dev team didn't...
  - mrweasel 10y ago
    I'm almost certain that it's legal in US to have people work in a windowless room, but I doubt that most people would accept it. So you're also restricted in how "deep" your building can be, if you discard the open office plan. Meaning that you'd have to build higher, or have more buildings.
    - mgkimsal 10y ago
      our coworking space is almost all windowless - I don't mind, others don't mind (or are still members, despite it). But we've still got ventilation in each room - it would get unbearable quickly without decent HVAC.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

brazzledazzle 10y ago

One important thing to note for people reading this is that hyperactivity doesn't always persist into adulthood with the other symptoms or is greatly reduced and is often turned inward (mental fidgeting). As far as your firings go, if you haven't watched this video and/or read this doctor's books they really help with understanding exactly what you're dealing with: https://youtu.be/SCAGc-rkIfo https://youtu.be/SCAGc-rkIfo It's long but worth watching at faster playback speed and in manageable chunks. Key takeaways: "Attention deficit" is less of a symptom and more of a measurable consequence of other symptoms: Impaired inhibition/impulse control, excessive irrelevant activity and impaired persistence (think discipline). Once you understand why you fail you can start addressing or working around your gaps, particularly the ones that any medication you may be on fail to address.

daodedickinson 10y ago
video not found?
- brazzledazzle 10y ago
  Oops, edited. Thanks. It's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo
  - taneq 10y ago
    Very interesting video, thanks! I just got up to the part where he basically says that people with ADHD basically don't have an inner monologue. Is that right? If so why have I never heard this before?
    - Joof 10y ago
      That sound horrendously wrong. Maybe for certain things we don't notice, but I have an inner monologue nearly 100% of the time (alongside other types of thought).
      - 10y ago

driverdan 10y ago

You've recognized some of the problems you encounter with ADHD. Have you attempted to take corrective action? Instead of having hard objects around that make noise have something soft to play with. In the end you're responsible for your actions.

MaulingMonkey 10y ago
> Have you attempted to take corrective action? Easier said than done I suspect - people aren't necessarily aware of their own subconscious fidgeting when it's happening. How do you even build awareness of what you're doing subconsciously? When my cubical desk is shaking like I'm in an earthquake because a coworker in a connected desk is bouncing their leg, they're more than happy to knock it off when I ask them to. That they were doing it in the first place takes them by surprise. This happens often enough to be distracting, but rarely enough that it's hard to build a habit of catching themselves in the act. I suppose one could build some kind of seismometer and attach it to an audio cue, but starting on a new hardware projects isn't exactly less of a distraction... and I'm not exactly immune to the siren call of bouncing my leg, either. > In the end you're responsible for your actions. Sure. But my take on open offices, is that they're distraction-inducing by design. Most of the rationale around them - aside from cost cutting - seems to be around such things as "It's easier to talk to people" / "see what they're working on" / ... Who's responsible for the action of creating that environment?

Joof 10y ago

Came here to say this. The fidgets are known to help with focus and thought, so if I can't fidget, I work noticeably more poorly. It's very difficult to notice them already. Oddly enough, I can be very helpful to others in an open space, but I've never managed to get my own work done.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

keithpeter 10y ago

I know this is tricky but have you ever tried explaining the condition at an interview? Along the lines of 'it would be best if I had a seat in an enclosed space for at least part of the day'.

mrweasel 10y ago
Unless a person have skills that are in extreme demand, I'm certain that the result would be that you're either not given the job, or you promised that the company will work something out, but never actually act upon it. It's not that I believe that companies are evil in that sense. It's just more stuff to deal with, stuff that's not really important to anyone but that single employee.
paddy_m 10y ago
I have done this many times. I generally wait until after the offer has been made. At that point the company is convinced in my work output. They should want to maximize their investment. My hope is that asking for specific work accommodations to maximize performance comes across as conscientious and carrying about the value I deliver. I phrase it along the lines of "I have trouble concentrating, so if I have to work in an open office environment I would perform the best if I face a wall".

Gigablah 10y ago

I wonder if something like this would help: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/antsylabs/fidget-cube-a-vinyl-desk-toy https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/antsylabs/fidget-cube-a...

animal531 10y ago
That looks pretty cool. My favourite home/office made finger toys are when you take 2 of the little plastic protectors off of the ports of screencards (and/or cables). They're a great size to stick your fingers a bit into and they usually fit inside each other nicely (it's ok if they're loose, but really great if they stick nicely). They're pretty durable too, unless if you play too hard they can last a very long time.