8 ms·

The value proposition is the responsive touch-screen. The closest responsive touch screen you can buy today is a 27" Wacom Cintiq, which is $2,299 without a co

The value proposition is the responsive touch-screen. The closest responsive touch screen you can buy today is a 27" Wacom Cintiq, which is $2,299 without a computer, and both lower-resolution (2560x1440 vs 4500x3000) and smaller (27" vs 28") than the Surface Studio. So if you assume that about $2,300 of the device's costs go to the display and touch screen, you're paying ~$700 for the actual machine driving that display, which isn't a great value, but isn't bad at all. A terrible value for people who aren't interested in the display, but not bad for people who are.

lifeformed 10y ago
I wish the Surface Pro was just the screen hardware that you can plug into a proper desktop.
- DAllison 10y ago
  Have you tried/considered the screen extension feature in the Windows 10 Anniversary Update?
  - naavis 10y ago
    Huh, I never even knew about this. I guess you mean this under the title "How to Mirror Your Windows 10 Screen to Another Windows 10 Device": http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/turn-windows-10-pc-into-wirelss-display http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/turn-windows-10-pc-into-wi... I wasn't able to get it working yet, though.
    - DAllison 10y ago
      I haven't used it myself (no second Windows 10 PC), but that sounds correct. I believe it's designed to let you use your Surface as an external monitor with pen/touch support for another Windows 10 PC.
usaphp 10y ago
> "you're paying ~$700 for the actual machine driving that display" ~$700 gets you a pretty basic computer with 965m, you can build a desktop with gtx 1070 for 700$ to power a wacom display. And you will be able to upgrade it in the future, with Studio you are stuck with a 965m for $3000. And if you are getting a 980m for $4200 that leaves you with a $1900 to build a computer for Wacom, which can be way more powerful than 980m... I think Microsoft should have sell that monitor by itself, but I guess this way they could not shovel win10 updates down your throat so it is not a good option for them...
- Ant5do 10y ago
  So (449) dollar graphics card, the 1070 + (200) dollar cpu + Case (100) + memory (150) + psupply (70) + mobo (150) + hdd/ssd (150) + Wacom cintiq with Digitizer which is what 2500? + an sRGB monitor at 4k 800? = 4-5000, with a shitty box and shitty experience and you get none of the engineering that went into the product. Plz continue dreaming up dev boxes that only devs could love. Feel free to throw in some glowing cold cathode lights, too.
  - usaphp 10y ago
    Wacom Cintiq 27QHD 27": $2300 [1] Core i7 PC with Gtx 1080: ~$1750 [2] = $4050 for a much more powerful machine and $150 cheaper + upgradable [1] - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1113579&gclid=CPyioser-c8CFYF9fgodcFwHUw&Q=&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677802%2C&is=REG&A=details https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1113... [2] - https://pcpartpicker.com/b/f2qkcf https://pcpartpicker.com/b/f2qkcf
    - ewzimm 10y ago
      That monitor is just under 3.69 billion pixels compared to 13.5 billion on the Surface Studio. It doesn't include the dial interface, the real-life scaling, the pivot mechanism, the color profiles, a lot more. It's probably the closest you can get, but not in the same league.
      - 10y ago
iamcreasy 10y ago
Do you know if MS have improved the stylus? As far as I know surface's pen technology is inferior than Cintiq's pen.
- AsakiIssa 10y ago
  Sadly no, I'm consistently reverting back to my 21ux, the jitter of slow stylus movement drives me nuts on the surface pro 4
  - K0SM0S 10y ago
    Could you elaborate just a bit? I was about to recommend some Surface flavor to a designer friend, I don't know about the jitter you mention.
    - AsakiIssa 10y ago
      This video shows it perfectly, while this is an SP3, the SP4 is based on the same tech : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA4iF00YHoA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA4iF00YHoA On slow strokes, you can the tracking between key points looses accuracy as if the signal between points becomes weak. I have tried everything I can to correct the issue like changing the stylus battery, 100 point calibration and driver updates. I'm pretty much convinced that N-trig just cannot be compared with Wacom (even the iPad Pro does a better job) However, there are programs (ClipPaint and Mischief are my prime examples) have built-in mouse smoothing which greatly reduces the jitter but means the drawing action lags behind by a second or so.
cma 10y ago
The Cintiq also isn't HDR and has a different aspect ratio, making the square inch size difference much greater than just a 1 inch diagonal increase would imply.

lifeformed 10y ago

I wish the Surface Pro was just the screen hardware that you can plug into a proper desktop.

DAllison 10y ago
Have you tried/considered the screen extension feature in the Windows 10 Anniversary Update?
- naavis 10y ago
  Huh, I never even knew about this. I guess you mean this under the title "How to Mirror Your Windows 10 Screen to Another Windows 10 Device": http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/turn-windows-10-pc-into-wirelss-display http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/turn-windows-10-pc-into-wi... I wasn't able to get it working yet, though.
  - DAllison 10y ago
    I haven't used it myself (no second Windows 10 PC), but that sounds correct. I believe it's designed to let you use your Surface as an external monitor with pen/touch support for another Windows 10 PC.

usaphp 10y ago

> "you're paying ~$700 for the actual machine driving that display" ~$700 gets you a pretty basic computer with 965m, you can build a desktop with gtx 1070 for 700$ to power a wacom display. And you will be able to upgrade it in the future, with Studio you are stuck with a 965m for $3000. And if you are getting a 980m for $4200 that leaves you with a $1900 to build a computer for Wacom, which can be way more powerful than 980m... I think Microsoft should have sell that monitor by itself, but I guess this way they could not shovel win10 updates down your throat so it is not a good option for them...

Ant5do 10y ago
So (449) dollar graphics card, the 1070 + (200) dollar cpu + Case (100) + memory (150) + psupply (70) + mobo (150) + hdd/ssd (150) + Wacom cintiq with Digitizer which is what 2500? + an sRGB monitor at 4k 800? = 4-5000, with a shitty box and shitty experience and you get none of the engineering that went into the product. Plz continue dreaming up dev boxes that only devs could love. Feel free to throw in some glowing cold cathode lights, too.
- usaphp 10y ago
  Wacom Cintiq 27QHD 27": $2300 [1] Core i7 PC with Gtx 1080: ~$1750 [2] = $4050 for a much more powerful machine and $150 cheaper + upgradable [1] - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1113579&gclid=CPyioser-c8CFYF9fgodcFwHUw&Q=&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677802%2C&is=REG&A=details https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1113... [2] - https://pcpartpicker.com/b/f2qkcf https://pcpartpicker.com/b/f2qkcf
  - ewzimm 10y ago
    That monitor is just under 3.69 billion pixels compared to 13.5 billion on the Surface Studio. It doesn't include the dial interface, the real-life scaling, the pivot mechanism, the color profiles, a lot more. It's probably the closest you can get, but not in the same league.
    - 10y ago

iamcreasy 10y ago

Do you know if MS have improved the stylus? As far as I know surface's pen technology is inferior than Cintiq's pen.

AsakiIssa 10y ago
Sadly no, I'm consistently reverting back to my 21ux, the jitter of slow stylus movement drives me nuts on the surface pro 4
- K0SM0S 10y ago
  Could you elaborate just a bit? I was about to recommend some Surface flavor to a designer friend, I don't know about the jitter you mention.
  - AsakiIssa 10y ago
    This video shows it perfectly, while this is an SP3, the SP4 is based on the same tech : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA4iF00YHoA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA4iF00YHoA On slow strokes, you can the tracking between key points looses accuracy as if the signal between points becomes weak. I have tried everything I can to correct the issue like changing the stylus battery, 100 point calibration and driver updates. I'm pretty much convinced that N-trig just cannot be compared with Wacom (even the iPad Pro does a better job) However, there are programs (ClipPaint and Mischief are my prime examples) have built-in mouse smoothing which greatly reduces the jitter but means the drawing action lags behind by a second or so.

cma 10y ago

The Cintiq also isn't HDR and has a different aspect ratio, making the square inch size difference much greater than just a 1 inch diagonal increase would imply.