4 ms·

Ug, is it just me, or does that he took money before actually having anyone to paint the pictures seem unethical? Would people have ordered if they had of know

Ug, is it just me, or does that he took money before actually having anyone to paint the pictures seem unethical? Would people have ordered if they had of known there were no artists as yet, or for that matter the artist were going to be friends of the website owner?

chrischen 10y ago
They ordered under the promise that I would deliver the product, somehow, and I did. I hired my friends who were artists in San Francisco to do them—at a loss too. That being said, worse case scenario would have been a refund, and most people paid via credit card which is interest free for 30 days anyways.
- redleggedfrog 10y ago
  I guess it's just me then. :^) For me it's the difference between purchasing a product and investing in your business. If presented as an investment, where my money is going to enable you to produce the item for me, then I'd be fine with it, because I would know the current state of your business. Now, if I knew you had no artists and were just floating an idea I would most likely refrain. The worst case scenario also assumes that the value of the product purchased is only the cost. What if it was purchased as a gift, with a specific timeline? I do understand that this is a tried and true business practice, just one that I am not comfortable with when the customer is not aware of it.
  - dismantlethesun 10y ago
    Worst case scenario, he'd have returned the money for any specific painting that couldn't be done, right?
    - zem 10y ago
      well, worst-case scenario the customer wanted the painting as, e.g., a graduation gift for their kid, and suddenly got told at the last minute "we couldn't do it, here's a refund"
      - icebraining 10y ago
        That could happen anyway even if he did have a painter ready; that's always a risk when you're custom ordering something.
    - zem 10y ago
      well, worst-case scenario the customer wanted the painting as, e.g., a graduation gift for their kid, and suddenly got told at the last minute "we couldn't do it, here's a refund"
raesene6 10y ago
TBH there's many cases where people sell things before actually having the capability to deliver them, as long as the customer gets the goods at the end of the day, I don't really see the problem. Heck if you look at the idea of Kickstarter and Indiegogo they're a whole market predicated on the idea of buying things that don't exist yet (and in many cases those things are harder to deliver than the creators suggest in their pitches)
- dbancajas 10y ago
  Yeah. Not only that, the money you give on KS has a risk of not being refunded if a clusterf*ck happens. In OPs story, he can just send a refund.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
lalos 10y ago
It's a common hustle/business tactic. Read up on how Microsoft was made into the giant it is today[1], similar trick. You are basically validating your idea, if you have a lot of orders coming in you have what I call a positive problem, a way to make money. [1] http://gizmodo.com/5825184/bill-gates-spent-the-best-money-of-his-life-30-years-ago-today http://gizmodo.com/5825184/bill-gates-spent-the-best-money-o...
- k__ 10y ago
  Alternative would be getting money from somewhere (credit, VC, friends, etc.) build the stuff in advanced and hope people will buy it.
dhruvkar 10y ago
You pay a company to have a service or product rendered. It's not my job to investigate Amazon's supply-chain to make sure that can actually deliver my toilet paper in 2 days. They are promising me this service and now it's their responsibility to deliver on that. If those services/product aren't rendered, then a refund should/can be demanded. I think this was completely within ethical bounds, assuming a promise was also made to return money if services weren't rendered.
kejaed 10y ago
Just had Sears cancel an online order that was 'in stock' when we purchased because they can't fulfill it. Did they ever have it in stock? Did they just run out and have poor inventory control? Who knows, but they couldn't fill it when they implied they could. Not sure I'd call that unethical.
lilbobbytables 10y ago
> the artist were going to be friends of the website owner What in the world is wrong with that part?
morgante 10y ago
If he delivers the products, what's the problem? It's literally a cornerstone of many/most businesses.
detaro 10y ago
Many people are offering to paint a picture from a photo, initially he could have just gone to someone like that and get the product. If you resell a service that is reliably available it is ok in my mind. There was no real risk of the product being impossible to deliver, only of him loosing even more money on it.
jdimov10 10y ago
You seem to have some VERY backwards ideas of ethics...
swalsh 10y ago
Unethical is advertising a service you don't plan on fulfilling. He made a promise in good faith (and delivered). Seems pretty clean in my book.
nwellinghoff 10y ago
How exactly do you think he could have actually hired the artist to do the work if he didn't take orders? Don't constrain yourself unnecessarily. It only would have been unethical if he held the money beyond the promised time to do the work or never delivered the work.
conductr 10y ago
I recently switched internet/tv providers. The new service had me sign a 2 year contract up front. The guy who did the install didn't know about it until 20 minutes before its scheduled. He's working a queue. Same as the artists I'm sure. Just saying, other companies lock you in much more deeper before knowing exactly how they'll deliver. Not weird at all.

chrischen 10y ago

They ordered under the promise that I would deliver the product, somehow, and I did. I hired my friends who were artists in San Francisco to do them—at a loss too. That being said, worse case scenario would have been a refund, and most people paid via credit card which is interest free for 30 days anyways.

redleggedfrog 10y ago
I guess it's just me then. :^) For me it's the difference between purchasing a product and investing in your business. If presented as an investment, where my money is going to enable you to produce the item for me, then I'd be fine with it, because I would know the current state of your business. Now, if I knew you had no artists and were just floating an idea I would most likely refrain. The worst case scenario also assumes that the value of the product purchased is only the cost. What if it was purchased as a gift, with a specific timeline? I do understand that this is a tried and true business practice, just one that I am not comfortable with when the customer is not aware of it.
- dismantlethesun 10y ago
  Worst case scenario, he'd have returned the money for any specific painting that couldn't be done, right?
  - zem 10y ago
    well, worst-case scenario the customer wanted the painting as, e.g., a graduation gift for their kid, and suddenly got told at the last minute "we couldn't do it, here's a refund"
    - icebraining 10y ago
      That could happen anyway even if he did have a painter ready; that's always a risk when you're custom ordering something.
  - zem 10y ago
    well, worst-case scenario the customer wanted the painting as, e.g., a graduation gift for their kid, and suddenly got told at the last minute "we couldn't do it, here's a refund"

raesene6 10y ago

TBH there's many cases where people sell things before actually having the capability to deliver them, as long as the customer gets the goods at the end of the day, I don't really see the problem. Heck if you look at the idea of Kickstarter and Indiegogo they're a whole market predicated on the idea of buying things that don't exist yet (and in many cases those things are harder to deliver than the creators suggest in their pitches)

dbancajas 10y ago
Yeah. Not only that, the money you give on KS has a risk of not being refunded if a clusterf*ck happens. In OPs story, he can just send a refund.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

lalos 10y ago

It's a common hustle/business tactic. Read up on how Microsoft was made into the giant it is today[1], similar trick. You are basically validating your idea, if you have a lot of orders coming in you have what I call a positive problem, a way to make money. [1] http://gizmodo.com/5825184/bill-gates-spent-the-best-money-of-his-life-30-years-ago-today http://gizmodo.com/5825184/bill-gates-spent-the-best-money-o...

k__ 10y ago
Alternative would be getting money from somewhere (credit, VC, friends, etc.) build the stuff in advanced and hope people will buy it.

dhruvkar 10y ago

You pay a company to have a service or product rendered. It's not my job to investigate Amazon's supply-chain to make sure that can actually deliver my toilet paper in 2 days. They are promising me this service and now it's their responsibility to deliver on that. If those services/product aren't rendered, then a refund should/can be demanded. I think this was completely within ethical bounds, assuming a promise was also made to return money if services weren't rendered.

kejaed 10y ago

Just had Sears cancel an online order that was 'in stock' when we purchased because they can't fulfill it. Did they ever have it in stock? Did they just run out and have poor inventory control? Who knows, but they couldn't fill it when they implied they could. Not sure I'd call that unethical.

lilbobbytables 10y ago

> the artist were going to be friends of the website owner What in the world is wrong with that part?

morgante 10y ago

If he delivers the products, what's the problem? It's literally a cornerstone of many/most businesses.

detaro 10y ago

Many people are offering to paint a picture from a photo, initially he could have just gone to someone like that and get the product. If you resell a service that is reliably available it is ok in my mind. There was no real risk of the product being impossible to deliver, only of him loosing even more money on it.

jdimov10 10y ago

You seem to have some VERY backwards ideas of ethics...

swalsh 10y ago

Unethical is advertising a service you don't plan on fulfilling. He made a promise in good faith (and delivered). Seems pretty clean in my book.

nwellinghoff 10y ago

How exactly do you think he could have actually hired the artist to do the work if he didn't take orders? Don't constrain yourself unnecessarily. It only would have been unethical if he held the money beyond the promised time to do the work or never delivered the work.

conductr 10y ago

I recently switched internet/tv providers. The new service had me sign a 2 year contract up front. The guy who did the install didn't know about it until 20 minutes before its scheduled. He's working a queue. Same as the artists I'm sure. Just saying, other companies lock you in much more deeper before knowing exactly how they'll deliver. Not weird at all.