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As an Apple (Mac Pro, MacBook Pro, PowerBook, PowerMac G5) user for 15 years, of photo processing & inDesign layout, I agree. XCode & iOS development is going

As an Apple (Mac Pro, MacBook Pro, PowerBook, PowerMac G5) user for 15 years, of photo processing & inDesign layout, I agree. XCode & iOS development is going to keep me on Apple for now, though, but the Linux subsystem for Windows is really appealing. The BSD Unix environment is the whole reason I went with Apple in the first place. OS X is basically a Unix workstation & perfected anything the Linux desktop wanted to be. Surprised MS went with nVidia 980s instead of 1080s, & Win 10 still a little clunky compared to OS X.

usaphp 10y ago
> "Surprised MS went with nVidia 980s instead of 1080s" It's not even 980, its 980m which is significantly slower than 980, nevermind 1080. And the 980m only comes in the $4199 option, that's ridiculous...
- Ant5do 10y ago
  Okay, seriously. The iMac comes with a 395x mobile gpu. It's pretty comparable to the 980m. The 1070m and 1080m don't exist yet. If you guys actually knew more about hardware than nothing, maybe you'd realize that it's not possible to get a 1080m. iMacs and Macbook Pros (top of the line 15-inch with dGPU) have always used mobile GPUs. Also, illustrators/designers don't need dGPUs. That's why the designers/illustrators at hte tech companies that you work at can use macbook 13 inch laptops and 15-inch laptops without the dGPUs
  - mhermher 10y ago
    NVIDIA got rid of the m distinction for the new gen. Razer (and I believe others) have already put a full "desktop" geforce 10xx in some of their laptops.
TheRealDunkirk 10y ago
> the Linux subsystem for Windows is really appealing In theory. To anyone who feels that way, please try it out for yourself before making a leap. I thought it would let me develop Ruby on Rails under Windows like I could do on Linux or macOS. I discovered a whole bunch of unimplemented features that prevented this. After a couple of months of commenting on bug reports and watching and trying, I gave up. I'll check back later. YMMV.
- ohstopitu 10y ago
  The biggest issue I have had with their subsystem is that of the file system (NTFS). The fact that I can't have long paths and can't soft link seem ridiculous.
  - mwfunk 10y ago
    NTFS has a functional equivalent to soft links in the form of reparse points, although I don't know to what degree that feature is exposed in the UI, if at all. Last time I looked into it (admittedly, years ago) they could only be created via the command line. Not sure what you mean by "can't have long paths" though, NTFS allows you to programmatically create paths up to 32,767 code points long: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365247.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365247.aspx
    - ohstopitu 10y ago
      Windows seems to have a certain hard limit on file path characters (a max of 160) which they seem to have recently removed [0] - So while my point is technically moot it's not enabled by default. As for soft links, a lot of linux tools create soft links (ln -s from to) and generally that fails on NTFS (I tried installing a bunch of npm modules and all had this specific issue)[1]. [0] - https://mspoweruser.com/ntfs-260-character-windows-10/ https://mspoweruser.com/ntfs-260-character-windows-10/ [1] - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8232778/nodejs-npm-installing-modules-on-ntfs-partition https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8232778/nodejs-npm-insta...
      - int_19h 10y ago
        It's a max of 260, and it's a Win32 subsystem limitation, not the limitation of NT OS or NTFS file system - and even in Win32 there are escape hatches for it, it's just that you need to know of them and use them explicitly to get such support. With respect to symlinks - NTFS supports them, but there are subtle semantic differences with POSIX. WSL does actually support symlinks (i.e. you can do ln -s), it's various other behavior around them that breaks, like trying to untar a file that contains symlinks. The team said that they're working on a custom implementation of symlinks that would provide proper behavior (but wouldn't be seen as a symlink from Win32).
rsync 10y ago
"OS X is basically a Unix workstation & perfected anything the Linux desktop wanted to be." Exactly. How do they not know this ? Or, why do they not care ? There is one big huge reason that "smart people" switched to OSX and the computers that ran it and that institutional knowledge appears to have evaporated at Apple. When you know your core, core base is here for the UNIX, you don't take away the escape key ... or keep breaking and re-breaking crontab ... or introduce the weird-stuff-I-can't-do-even-as-root.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
illuminati1911 10y ago
"Linux subsystem for Windows is really appealing." Have you actually tried it out? I thought nobody anymore believed in this after the first versions came out and people actually had a chance to try it in action. There are endless amounts of bugs, unimplemented features, complications between 2 filesystems, permissions, applications etc. When MS announced this I was pretty hopeful. Not that I would change my dev-computer from way superior macOS to Windows, but that when I'm at home gaming on my Windows PC and I get some cool idea, I could do some small development or create simple prototypes without changing from my desktop to my laptop. After trying it out for real I don't belive anymore this "linux" subsystem thingy is ever going to be anything more than niche PoC.
- ksk 10y ago
  What did you try and what bugs did you run into?
- domenukk 10y ago
  Most binaries run really well. A lot of the stuff that didn't work in the first preview has since been fixed (like tmux, 24bit colors in bash etc.). Plus you can now call linux apps from windows with bash -c and call exes from bash which makes cross platform development amazing.
  - flukus 10y ago
    > Plus you can now call linux apps from windows with bash -c and call exes from bash which makes cross platform development amazing. Unless you need to pass a directory path.
- nxc182 10y ago
  WSL is still in very early beta. It works amazingly well when you consider how early this project is. Windows NT has done a good job supporting multiple APIs/subsystems in the past. Windows NT for example does a perfectly good job with the Win32 subsystem - software targeting Win32 for '95, '98, etc. still works on Windows 10, perfectly, despite being a totally different kernel.
- 10y ago

usaphp 10y ago

> "Surprised MS went with nVidia 980s instead of 1080s" It's not even 980, its 980m which is significantly slower than 980, nevermind 1080. And the 980m only comes in the $4199 option, that's ridiculous...

Ant5do 10y ago
Okay, seriously. The iMac comes with a 395x mobile gpu. It's pretty comparable to the 980m. The 1070m and 1080m don't exist yet. If you guys actually knew more about hardware than nothing, maybe you'd realize that it's not possible to get a 1080m. iMacs and Macbook Pros (top of the line 15-inch with dGPU) have always used mobile GPUs. Also, illustrators/designers don't need dGPUs. That's why the designers/illustrators at hte tech companies that you work at can use macbook 13 inch laptops and 15-inch laptops without the dGPUs
- mhermher 10y ago
  NVIDIA got rid of the m distinction for the new gen. Razer (and I believe others) have already put a full "desktop" geforce 10xx in some of their laptops.

TheRealDunkirk 10y ago

> the Linux subsystem for Windows is really appealing In theory. To anyone who feels that way, please try it out for yourself before making a leap. I thought it would let me develop Ruby on Rails under Windows like I could do on Linux or macOS. I discovered a whole bunch of unimplemented features that prevented this. After a couple of months of commenting on bug reports and watching and trying, I gave up. I'll check back later. YMMV.

ohstopitu 10y ago
The biggest issue I have had with their subsystem is that of the file system (NTFS). The fact that I can't have long paths and can't soft link seem ridiculous.
- mwfunk 10y ago
  NTFS has a functional equivalent to soft links in the form of reparse points, although I don't know to what degree that feature is exposed in the UI, if at all. Last time I looked into it (admittedly, years ago) they could only be created via the command line. Not sure what you mean by "can't have long paths" though, NTFS allows you to programmatically create paths up to 32,767 code points long: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365247.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365247.aspx
  - ohstopitu 10y ago
    Windows seems to have a certain hard limit on file path characters (a max of 160) which they seem to have recently removed [0] - So while my point is technically moot it's not enabled by default. As for soft links, a lot of linux tools create soft links (ln -s from to) and generally that fails on NTFS (I tried installing a bunch of npm modules and all had this specific issue)[1]. [0] - https://mspoweruser.com/ntfs-260-character-windows-10/ https://mspoweruser.com/ntfs-260-character-windows-10/ [1] - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8232778/nodejs-npm-installing-modules-on-ntfs-partition https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8232778/nodejs-npm-insta...
    - int_19h 10y ago
      It's a max of 260, and it's a Win32 subsystem limitation, not the limitation of NT OS or NTFS file system - and even in Win32 there are escape hatches for it, it's just that you need to know of them and use them explicitly to get such support. With respect to symlinks - NTFS supports them, but there are subtle semantic differences with POSIX. WSL does actually support symlinks (i.e. you can do ln -s), it's various other behavior around them that breaks, like trying to untar a file that contains symlinks. The team said that they're working on a custom implementation of symlinks that would provide proper behavior (but wouldn't be seen as a symlink from Win32).

rsync 10y ago

"OS X is basically a Unix workstation & perfected anything the Linux desktop wanted to be." Exactly. How do they not know this ? Or, why do they not care ? There is one big huge reason that "smart people" switched to OSX and the computers that ran it and that institutional knowledge appears to have evaporated at Apple. When you know your core, core base is here for the UNIX, you don't take away the escape key ... or keep breaking and re-breaking crontab ... or introduce the weird-stuff-I-can't-do-even-as-root.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

illuminati1911 10y ago

"Linux subsystem for Windows is really appealing." Have you actually tried it out? I thought nobody anymore believed in this after the first versions came out and people actually had a chance to try it in action. There are endless amounts of bugs, unimplemented features, complications between 2 filesystems, permissions, applications etc. When MS announced this I was pretty hopeful. Not that I would change my dev-computer from way superior macOS to Windows, but that when I'm at home gaming on my Windows PC and I get some cool idea, I could do some small development or create simple prototypes without changing from my desktop to my laptop. After trying it out for real I don't belive anymore this "linux" subsystem thingy is ever going to be anything more than niche PoC.

ksk 10y ago
What did you try and what bugs did you run into?
domenukk 10y ago
Most binaries run really well. A lot of the stuff that didn't work in the first preview has since been fixed (like tmux, 24bit colors in bash etc.). Plus you can now call linux apps from windows with bash -c and call exes from bash which makes cross platform development amazing.
- flukus 10y ago
  > Plus you can now call linux apps from windows with bash -c and call exes from bash which makes cross platform development amazing. Unless you need to pass a directory path.
nxc182 10y ago
WSL is still in very early beta. It works amazingly well when you consider how early this project is. Windows NT has done a good job supporting multiple APIs/subsystems in the past. Windows NT for example does a perfectly good job with the Win32 subsystem - software targeting Win32 for '95, '98, etc. still works on Windows 10, perfectly, despite being a totally different kernel.
10y ago