13 ms·

Peter Thiel and the Undecided Trump Voter

20 points by arigold123 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
brickmort 10y ago
The mentality of "if your opinions don't align with mine, you should be silenced and banned" is the exact reason that I began moving away from the Left, despite still considering myself socially liberal. Speaking for myself, I hit a point where I realized that any slight questioning or dissent of the general ideology was returned with vehement backlash by the left. I would consider most undecided voters to be sane, rational people with good consciences because I admit that both candidates have their warts and what it all boils down to is what would best for the country. With that said, the undecided voter knows better than to even think about publicly expressing that they might consider voting Trump, out of fear of having their property stolen or burned, reputation tarnished, etc. The left has been hijacked by extreme left-wing groups taking the podium from classical liberals, and the party itself is imploding under the repeated revelations from Wikileaks and Project Veritas. It truly is an election that will go down in history.
- matthewmcg 10y ago
  How is Peter Thiel being silenced or banned? He's choosing to publicize his support of Trump and others are choosing to criticize it.
  - brickmort 10y ago
    For instance, a recent article in The Advocate stated he was no longer a part of the LGBTQ community for supporting Trump: http://archive.is/kTlTL http://archive.is/kTlTL Also, Facebook endured alot of external backlash for continuing to have him on the Board, so much that Facebook had to release a statement to address it: http://s13.postimg.org/ohe1sci6f/mmexport1476831885441.jpg http://s13.postimg.org/ohe1sci6f/mmexport1476831885441.jpg
    - norea-armozel 10y ago
      "For instance, a recent article in The Advocate stated he was no longer a part of the LGBTQ community for supporting Trump: http://archive.is/kTlTL" http://archive.is/kTlTL" Are you asserting that people have to associate with others they don't agree with in terms of ideologies? Because I'm sorry but I'm not inviting my alcoholic fundie uncle to the cookout. He's an ass and he has poor taste in beer. Joking aside, the freedom of association is a civil right just as much as free speech. If I don't want to associate with anyone that's my right. And it's a right that extends to private organizations. If the Advocate wants to mock Peter Thiel or otherwise not ever invite him to their events that's their right. Conversely, Thiel is free to do the same without interference. Why is this a problem with you? Do you want force people to associate with each other when they would better off not associating at all?
  - norea-armozel 10y ago
    According to the alt-right you have to listen to their side or else you're censoring them. Also, if you ban them from your own web forums, mailing lists, or private venues that too is evil evil censorship (aka no freedom of association for you).
  - belak 10y ago
    He isn't being silenced or banned as far as I know, but there were multiple people calling for his removal as a part-time partner with YCombinator. Sam Altman summed it up and explained his decision in his blog: http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election
- tdb7893 10y ago
  I haven't heard rumors of the party imploding except from sources on the right so I'll be interested to see if it actually happens. Also I haven't found the left taken over by crazy people except on the internet but of course that's what it's going to seem like when you are talking to people on twitter and tumblr
- norea-armozel 10y ago
  "The mentality of "if your opinions don't align with mine, you should be silenced and banned" is the exact reason that I began moving away from the Left, despite still considering myself socially liberal." Being banned on social media or not invited to a conference isn't illegal since your free to speak and associate with whom you wish. If Twitter/Facebook or some private organization doesn't want to associate with you doesn't mean you're forced to not speak. You just can't speak with or through them. As for the rest of your comment it just smacks of naivety of someone who's not studied political history. First, classical liberalism use to be the left but ceased to be the left the moment it shifted rightward toward sympathizing with fascists as what happened in countries like Germany under the Weimer Republic. Second, left-wing groups that you deem extreme in the United States are fairly moderate in terms of global left-right politics. Asking for LGBT people to be added to the protected classes under the Civil Rights Act of 1964 isn't extreme. If such legal extensions are extreme to you then you need to ask yourself if you're actually a liberal and not some Burkean libertarian conservative.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - Torgo 10y ago
    I hope people noticed that you reserve for yourself the right to exclude people you disagree with based on private property and freedom of association but then restrict them from doing the same to you by categorizing yourself under a federal anti-discrimination law.
    - norea-armozel 10y ago
      The civil rights act of 1964 doesn't put obligations on private parties to contract with other private parties since said private parties by definition are private. Meaning that if I operate a club or some sort of prayer group I'm privileged to exclude or include anyone of my choosing so long as the fellow members of that group agree with my decision. Federal law on this is very clear and something that no one can argue otherwise. There's hundreds of cases like this which the federal government looks at and concludes rightly the scope of the Civil Rights Act limits them. So, if I want to exclude Peter Thiel from my prayer group I can god damn can and will, and there's nothing little Pete can do about it under federal law.
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  The mentality of "if your opinions don't align with mine, you should be silenced and banned" No one's talking about "silencing" or "banning" him. That's quite a severe misattribution of what people are actually saying.
rahrahrah 10y ago
Poor Peter Thiel, he just wanted to get in the game of bribing politicians.
- gragas 10y ago
  You are delusional if you think Thiel is bribing politicians and HRC/DNC is not. Have you not seen the videos? Top DNC staffers were fired. People are going to jail.
  - rahrahrah 10y ago
    You are delusional if you think I said anything about Clinton.
    - gragas 10y ago
      You're right. I was on edge.
norea-armozel 10y ago
So I want to address the article directly. People who are "Undecided" Trump voters as he's described aren't exactly good folks even if they were Decided Trump voters since many like Ben Shapiro (whom he referenced) are strongly opposed to personal civil rights when it comes to LGBT people. So all the author proved to me that there's educated bigots (yes, let's call them what they are and not shy away from it). Whether it's Shapiro's own belief that trans women are just mentally ill men or David Duke's beliefs that African Americans are less intelligent it's all about using such beliefs to control those whom they disparage. And they're not born out of paternalistic concern, they're born out of the same base desire to control and dominate people whom others see as less than human. So, I'm sorry if I don't want to give those people a hearing who want to do that but this is the modern age where we know better both scientifically and morally. There's no more room to debate the moral agency of people who work, live, and serve in the countries around this world just because they're different from us. I don't think less of the Shapiros in the world but I do question their intentions. If Ben Shapiro would support unconditionally my civil rights as a trans woman despite not agreeing with the prescribed course I've taken to resolve my gender dysphoria then all would be well. And that's all he and folks like him have to do. I'm not asking him to pay for my gender transition or to cheer me on. Just afford me my civil rights (the same rights that protect his faith as a Jew) and move on.
- gragas 10y ago
  Literally every single person I know that's voting for Trump (and there's a lot of them) has no problem with same-sex marriage, or any other LGBTQ issue for that matter. The people voting for Trump are the people voting 1. Against corruption 2. For specific values of the Republican party, primarily these three things---in no particular order: (a) lower taxes, less government (b) tighter immigration (c) preservation of conservative culture and the constitution. I am a bleeding liberal when it comes to almost all social issues. But I share the GOP's principles as they relate to fiscal policy and the boundaries of the government.
  - norea-armozel 10y ago
    And literally every Trump supporter I've talked to online opposes anti-discrimination laws protecting LGBT people like me. So don't expect me to be nice to them or to associate with them. Sorry but my life, my time, my money, my way or the highway. If that frightens them then they shouldn't try to talk to me in the first place.
nikolay 10y ago
The Liberals are anything but liberal about what others think - they are the same kind of people like the PETA supporters who would kill a human to save an animal. I think one day this will be classified as a mental disorder. It's an internal struggle between their imperfect self and the image they want to advertise in the society. As somebody raised during Communism in Bulgaria, I can say all Left are the same - eventually, they either turn Nazi or Stalinist! The gay parades are one of those extreme manifestations. Well, of course, times today are slightly different than during Hitler or Stalin, but the cruelty against people who think differently is the same order of magnitude! The patronizing, the unsubstantiated claim of superiority, the low-class ridicule of half of America is simply disgusting. I watched Michael Moore yesterday, and he is a manifestation of that kind. But, I guess, the culture in the states have totally destroyed by the TV and movie culture promoting ridicule and pranks! In general, there's no more respect, there's Narcissism, and all this is not going to end up well!
- norea-armozel 10y ago
  "The Liberals are anything but liberal about what others think - they are the same kind of people like the PETA supporters who would kill a human to save an animal." PETA isn't liberal. "As somebody raised during Communism in Bulgaria, I can say all Left are the same - eventually, they either turn Nazi or Stalinist!" Stalinism isn't socialism either, it's just industrial capitalism with a cult of personality. "The gay parades are one of those extreme manifestations." Clearly you're not gay so you've never had to deal with thugs like skinheads try to turn your face into a fine red paste on the pavement. Pride parades are basically a big middle finger to people like those skinheads. LGBT people engage in them to show that they'll never stop being themselves. If this is offensive to you then you need to grow a thicker skin. "Well, of course, times today are slightly different than during Hitler or Stalin, but the cruelty against people who think differently is the same order of magnitude!" Yeah gay pride parades are totally Stalinist rallies considering Stalin put LGBT people into gulags. /s "The patronizing, the unsubstantiated claim of superiority, the low-class ridicule of half of America is simply disgusting." I think you're confusing brogressives for actual leftists. Brogressives (like how they're portrayed by South Park) aren't legitimately progressive or left since to them it's about the performance of appearing left rather than supporting or engaging in leftist ideas (think dudes who claim to support georgism but oppose implementing Land Value Tax). So please make the distinction between the PCbros and actual leftists. "I watched Michael Moore yesterday, and he is a manifestation of that kind. But, I guess, the culture in the states have totally destroyed by the TV and movie culture promoting ridicule and pranks! In general, there's no more respect, there's Narcissism, and all this is not going to end up well!" If being smug is your sufficient condition to becoming literally Stalin I'm not sure your thesis really makes sense. Stalin wasn't just some smug jerk from Georgia but an actual murderous thug that was paranoid beyond belief. A liberal being smug isn't an exclusive trait to liberals anymore than it's an exclusive trait to conservatives (Rush Limbaugh is the essence of conservative smugness). Smugness is a human trait and to make it into something otherwise betrays your position. I suggest you think it over and question whether or not you're just upset that some leftists aren't listening to you online. Because you're not owed a hearing (nor am I) online/offline just because you have opinions.

20 points by arigold123 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

The mentality of "if your opinions don't align with mine, you should be silenced and banned" is the exact reason that I began moving away from the Left, despite still considering myself socially liberal. Speaking for myself, I hit a point where I realized that any slight questioning or dissent of the general ideology was returned with vehement backlash by the left. I would consider most undecided voters to be sane, rational people with good consciences because I admit that both candidates have their warts and what it all boils down to is what would best for the country. With that said, the undecided voter knows better than to even think about publicly expressing that they might consider voting Trump, out of fear of having their property stolen or burned, reputation tarnished, etc. The left has been hijacked by extreme left-wing groups taking the podium from classical liberals, and the party itself is imploding under the repeated revelations from Wikileaks and Project Veritas. It truly is an election that will go down in history.

matthewmcg 10y ago
How is Peter Thiel being silenced or banned? He's choosing to publicize his support of Trump and others are choosing to criticize it.
- brickmort 10y ago
  For instance, a recent article in The Advocate stated he was no longer a part of the LGBTQ community for supporting Trump: http://archive.is/kTlTL http://archive.is/kTlTL Also, Facebook endured alot of external backlash for continuing to have him on the Board, so much that Facebook had to release a statement to address it: http://s13.postimg.org/ohe1sci6f/mmexport1476831885441.jpg http://s13.postimg.org/ohe1sci6f/mmexport1476831885441.jpg
  - norea-armozel 10y ago
    "For instance, a recent article in The Advocate stated he was no longer a part of the LGBTQ community for supporting Trump: http://archive.is/kTlTL" http://archive.is/kTlTL" Are you asserting that people have to associate with others they don't agree with in terms of ideologies? Because I'm sorry but I'm not inviting my alcoholic fundie uncle to the cookout. He's an ass and he has poor taste in beer. Joking aside, the freedom of association is a civil right just as much as free speech. If I don't want to associate with anyone that's my right. And it's a right that extends to private organizations. If the Advocate wants to mock Peter Thiel or otherwise not ever invite him to their events that's their right. Conversely, Thiel is free to do the same without interference. Why is this a problem with you? Do you want force people to associate with each other when they would better off not associating at all?
- norea-armozel 10y ago
  According to the alt-right you have to listen to their side or else you're censoring them. Also, if you ban them from your own web forums, mailing lists, or private venues that too is evil evil censorship (aka no freedom of association for you).
- belak 10y ago
  He isn't being silenced or banned as far as I know, but there were multiple people calling for his removal as a part-time partner with YCombinator. Sam Altman summed it up and explained his decision in his blog: http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election
tdb7893 10y ago
I haven't heard rumors of the party imploding except from sources on the right so I'll be interested to see if it actually happens. Also I haven't found the left taken over by crazy people except on the internet but of course that's what it's going to seem like when you are talking to people on twitter and tumblr
norea-armozel 10y ago
"The mentality of "if your opinions don't align with mine, you should be silenced and banned" is the exact reason that I began moving away from the Left, despite still considering myself socially liberal." Being banned on social media or not invited to a conference isn't illegal since your free to speak and associate with whom you wish. If Twitter/Facebook or some private organization doesn't want to associate with you doesn't mean you're forced to not speak. You just can't speak with or through them. As for the rest of your comment it just smacks of naivety of someone who's not studied political history. First, classical liberalism use to be the left but ceased to be the left the moment it shifted rightward toward sympathizing with fascists as what happened in countries like Germany under the Weimer Republic. Second, left-wing groups that you deem extreme in the United States are fairly moderate in terms of global left-right politics. Asking for LGBT people to be added to the protected classes under the Civil Rights Act of 1964 isn't extreme. If such legal extensions are extreme to you then you need to ask yourself if you're actually a liberal and not some Burkean libertarian conservative.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Torgo 10y ago
  I hope people noticed that you reserve for yourself the right to exclude people you disagree with based on private property and freedom of association but then restrict them from doing the same to you by categorizing yourself under a federal anti-discrimination law.
  - norea-armozel 10y ago
    The civil rights act of 1964 doesn't put obligations on private parties to contract with other private parties since said private parties by definition are private. Meaning that if I operate a club or some sort of prayer group I'm privileged to exclude or include anyone of my choosing so long as the fellow members of that group agree with my decision. Federal law on this is very clear and something that no one can argue otherwise. There's hundreds of cases like this which the federal government looks at and concludes rightly the scope of the Civil Rights Act limits them. So, if I want to exclude Peter Thiel from my prayer group I can god damn can and will, and there's nothing little Pete can do about it under federal law.
kafkaesq 10y ago
The mentality of "if your opinions don't align with mine, you should be silenced and banned" No one's talking about "silencing" or "banning" him. That's quite a severe misattribution of what people are actually saying.

rahrahrah 10y ago

Poor Peter Thiel, he just wanted to get in the game of bribing politicians.

gragas 10y ago
You are delusional if you think Thiel is bribing politicians and HRC/DNC is not. Have you not seen the videos? Top DNC staffers were fired. People are going to jail.
- rahrahrah 10y ago
  You are delusional if you think I said anything about Clinton.
  - gragas 10y ago
    You're right. I was on edge.

norea-armozel 10y ago

So I want to address the article directly. People who are "Undecided" Trump voters as he's described aren't exactly good folks even if they were Decided Trump voters since many like Ben Shapiro (whom he referenced) are strongly opposed to personal civil rights when it comes to LGBT people. So all the author proved to me that there's educated bigots (yes, let's call them what they are and not shy away from it). Whether it's Shapiro's own belief that trans women are just mentally ill men or David Duke's beliefs that African Americans are less intelligent it's all about using such beliefs to control those whom they disparage. And they're not born out of paternalistic concern, they're born out of the same base desire to control and dominate people whom others see as less than human. So, I'm sorry if I don't want to give those people a hearing who want to do that but this is the modern age where we know better both scientifically and morally. There's no more room to debate the moral agency of people who work, live, and serve in the countries around this world just because they're different from us. I don't think less of the Shapiros in the world but I do question their intentions. If Ben Shapiro would support unconditionally my civil rights as a trans woman despite not agreeing with the prescribed course I've taken to resolve my gender dysphoria then all would be well. And that's all he and folks like him have to do. I'm not asking him to pay for my gender transition or to cheer me on. Just afford me my civil rights (the same rights that protect his faith as a Jew) and move on.

gragas 10y ago
Literally every single person I know that's voting for Trump (and there's a lot of them) has no problem with same-sex marriage, or any other LGBTQ issue for that matter. The people voting for Trump are the people voting 1. Against corruption 2. For specific values of the Republican party, primarily these three things---in no particular order: (a) lower taxes, less government (b) tighter immigration (c) preservation of conservative culture and the constitution. I am a bleeding liberal when it comes to almost all social issues. But I share the GOP's principles as they relate to fiscal policy and the boundaries of the government.
- norea-armozel 10y ago
  And literally every Trump supporter I've talked to online opposes anti-discrimination laws protecting LGBT people like me. So don't expect me to be nice to them or to associate with them. Sorry but my life, my time, my money, my way or the highway. If that frightens them then they shouldn't try to talk to me in the first place.

nikolay 10y ago

The Liberals are anything but liberal about what others think - they are the same kind of people like the PETA supporters who would kill a human to save an animal. I think one day this will be classified as a mental disorder. It's an internal struggle between their imperfect self and the image they want to advertise in the society. As somebody raised during Communism in Bulgaria, I can say all Left are the same - eventually, they either turn Nazi or Stalinist! The gay parades are one of those extreme manifestations. Well, of course, times today are slightly different than during Hitler or Stalin, but the cruelty against people who think differently is the same order of magnitude! The patronizing, the unsubstantiated claim of superiority, the low-class ridicule of half of America is simply disgusting. I watched Michael Moore yesterday, and he is a manifestation of that kind. But, I guess, the culture in the states have totally destroyed by the TV and movie culture promoting ridicule and pranks! In general, there's no more respect, there's Narcissism, and all this is not going to end up well!

norea-armozel 10y ago
"The Liberals are anything but liberal about what others think - they are the same kind of people like the PETA supporters who would kill a human to save an animal." PETA isn't liberal. "As somebody raised during Communism in Bulgaria, I can say all Left are the same - eventually, they either turn Nazi or Stalinist!" Stalinism isn't socialism either, it's just industrial capitalism with a cult of personality. "The gay parades are one of those extreme manifestations." Clearly you're not gay so you've never had to deal with thugs like skinheads try to turn your face into a fine red paste on the pavement. Pride parades are basically a big middle finger to people like those skinheads. LGBT people engage in them to show that they'll never stop being themselves. If this is offensive to you then you need to grow a thicker skin. "Well, of course, times today are slightly different than during Hitler or Stalin, but the cruelty against people who think differently is the same order of magnitude!" Yeah gay pride parades are totally Stalinist rallies considering Stalin put LGBT people into gulags. /s "The patronizing, the unsubstantiated claim of superiority, the low-class ridicule of half of America is simply disgusting." I think you're confusing brogressives for actual leftists. Brogressives (like how they're portrayed by South Park) aren't legitimately progressive or left since to them it's about the performance of appearing left rather than supporting or engaging in leftist ideas (think dudes who claim to support georgism but oppose implementing Land Value Tax). So please make the distinction between the PCbros and actual leftists. "I watched Michael Moore yesterday, and he is a manifestation of that kind. But, I guess, the culture in the states have totally destroyed by the TV and movie culture promoting ridicule and pranks! In general, there's no more respect, there's Narcissism, and all this is not going to end up well!" If being smug is your sufficient condition to becoming literally Stalin I'm not sure your thesis really makes sense. Stalin wasn't just some smug jerk from Georgia but an actual murderous thug that was paranoid beyond belief. A liberal being smug isn't an exclusive trait to liberals anymore than it's an exclusive trait to conservatives (Rush Limbaugh is the essence of conservative smugness). Smugness is a human trait and to make it into something otherwise betrays your position. I suggest you think it over and question whether or not you're just upset that some leftists aren't listening to you online. Because you're not owed a hearing (nor am I) online/offline just because you have opinions.