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I have one simple test to determine is something is a Lisp. Does it fit the statement "The program is the data"? It is a simple statement that implies a whole l

I have one simple test to determine is something is a Lisp. Does it fit the statement "The program is the data"? It is a simple statement that implies a whole lot of power in a language, like the ability for a program to create a new program.

draegtun 17y ago
Neither Io & Ioke are Lisp but both fit the statement The program is the data Also I think the the ability for a program to create a new program (I assume you mean on the fly) is probably inherent in all dynamic languages.
- avar 17y ago
  "Ability" doesn't imply "first-class support" or "good idea". In languages that aren't Lisp this usually ends up being done by passing a raw string to eval() which is extremely error prone. It's not something you do lightly. Constructing macros in Lisp however /is/ something you do lightly. A typical lisp program might have a 20/80 division of macros/functions. You aren't going to see a sane program in other languages that do the same thing.
  - bad_user 17y ago
    > Constructing macros in Lisp however /is/ something you do lightly For all the ease with which one can create macros in LISP, I haven't seen anything comparable to LINQ yet. And while I've seen useful macros here and there, I haven't seen anything groundbreaking ... macros are mostly used when you need laziness. Powerful? Yes. Easy to use? No.
    - lispm 17y ago
      If you haven't seen anything, did you actually look around? Common SQL : http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/sql-tutorial/index.html http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/sql-tutorial/index.ht... (loop for columns being the records of [select [*] :from [SpeciesList] :where aardvark] do (print columns)) Common SQL provides some kind of embedded SQL that gets expanded with read macros and macros to more low-level Lisp code.
  - draegtun 17y ago
    Io & Ioke are like Lisp here. You have full access to the parse tree and don't need to anything as crude as passing raw strings to eval().

draegtun 17y ago

Neither Io & Ioke are Lisp but both fit the statement The program is the data Also I think the the ability for a program to create a new program (I assume you mean on the fly) is probably inherent in all dynamic languages.

avar 17y ago
"Ability" doesn't imply "first-class support" or "good idea". In languages that aren't Lisp this usually ends up being done by passing a raw string to eval() which is extremely error prone. It's not something you do lightly. Constructing macros in Lisp however /is/ something you do lightly. A typical lisp program might have a 20/80 division of macros/functions. You aren't going to see a sane program in other languages that do the same thing.
- bad_user 17y ago
  > Constructing macros in Lisp however /is/ something you do lightly For all the ease with which one can create macros in LISP, I haven't seen anything comparable to LINQ yet. And while I've seen useful macros here and there, I haven't seen anything groundbreaking ... macros are mostly used when you need laziness. Powerful? Yes. Easy to use? No.
  - lispm 17y ago
    If you haven't seen anything, did you actually look around? Common SQL : http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/sql-tutorial/index.html http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/sql-tutorial/index.ht... (loop for columns being the records of [select [*] :from [SpeciesList] :where aardvark] do (print columns)) Common SQL provides some kind of embedded SQL that gets expanded with read macros and macros to more low-level Lisp code.
- draegtun 17y ago
  Io & Ioke are like Lisp here. You have full access to the parse tree and don't need to anything as crude as passing raw strings to eval().