4 ms·

Norway does not have a compulsory conscription they only elect to enlist those who are motivated to do so and you can object without any legal repercussions. T

by Kenji 10y ago

Norway does not have a compulsory conscription they only elect to enlist those who are motivated to do so and you can object without any legal repercussions. That is weird because a few years ago I had a friend from Norway and he was forced to serve. There were ways out - like the mental health route, but that left you with rather unpleasant entries in databases you'd rather not be in. I forgot about the Swiss, but it seems that they are also going to be or have started conscripting women as of 2016. No such thing is happening in Switzerland. At all. There might be some discussion about it, but if so, it's not serious. I don't really care about the "civil service" option. It is still forced labour and violates human rights. Hire people or let them be, that also applies to the state. I have plans with my life, I can't just give a year here and a year there for some random governmental institution that forces me to mostly stand outside and wait or humiliate myself in front of sadistic military superiors.

dogma1138 10y ago
>That is weird because a few years ago I had a friend from Norway and he was forced to serve. There were ways out - like the mental health route, but that left you with rather unpleasant entries in databases you'd rather not be in. I have family and friends in Norway there are tons of easy way outs, they don't even call the majority of people if you don't show up or refuse early they don't bother asking you twice. I don't know what happened to your friend but it could be that he agreed, signed up and then regretted it. "Norway employs a weak form of mandatory military service for men and women. While 63,841 men and women were called in for the examination of persons liable for military service in 2012 (mandatory for men), 9265 were conscripted.[6] In 2015 conscription was extended to women making Norway the first NATO member and first European country to make national service compulsory for both men and women.[7] There is a right of conscientious objection." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Armed_Forces#cite_note-Norwegian_Armed_Forces_-_Conscription_Statistics-6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Armed_Forces#cite_no... >I don't really care about the "civil service" option. It is still forced labour and violates human rights. Hire people or let them be, that also applies to the state. I have plans with my life, I can't just give a year here and a year there for some random governmental institution that forces me to mostly stand outside and wait or humiliate myself in front of sadistic military superiors. Well then we have a different set of values on one's role in society, I believe that civil service needs to be highly encouraged if not mandatory, I would even put something like a voluntary social year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_social_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_social_year) as a mandatory activity in a university or college and some institutions do have that where you need to vulenteer for a few semesters during your degree.
- Kenji 10y ago
  That's funny how that works in Norway. In Switzerland, if you ignore all the letters of conscription you get fines and after some years, you will be visited by two very kind policemen who put you in prison. Hmm, that is interesting. What is the benefit of such a social year, as opposed to having the youngsters start either an apprenticeship, where they can learn a trade, or continue and finish their education, and then get into the workforce? If such social labour has to be done, it should be paid accordingly and people should not be forced to do it in my eyes.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    >What is the benefit of such a social year, as opposed to having the youngsters start either an apprenticeship, where they can learn a trade, or continue and finish their education, and then get into the workforce? If such social labour has to be done, it should be paid accordingly and people should not be forced to do it in my eyes. Because I believe that each and every one of us is born with a debt to society and that promoting selflessness and community work is beneficial on moral and ethical grounds for the society as a whole. I don't see anything more wrong with doing a civil service which often you are paid for (not much but are paid for) than saying collecting taxes on your hard work, in fact I would go out and say that I would rather being "forced" to volunteer for a year or two in my youth than pay higher taxes. I also believe that good order, structure and community outreach can help people find their place in society better and to learn more about themselves, society already forces you to do many things I don't see how the fact that you rushed out into the workforce or into a specific education path just to make money any less forced than volunteering at a school, hospital, fire department or anything like that. In fact it can help society on many levels, there is nothing that prevents say a 3rd year CompSci student from teaching programming at a school 2-3 times a week, in fact having a 20 something role model who they can relate too is likely to have a very good positive effect on children and young adults. Volunteering also tends to reshape your perception of society and in my opinion for the better, I was a volunteer EMT since I was 16 and I have done a military service, this is just my experience and my lesson learned.

by Kenji 10y ago

dogma1138 10y ago

>That is weird because a few years ago I had a friend from Norway and he was forced to serve. There were ways out - like the mental health route, but that left you with rather unpleasant entries in databases you'd rather not be in. I have family and friends in Norway there are tons of easy way outs, they don't even call the majority of people if you don't show up or refuse early they don't bother asking you twice. I don't know what happened to your friend but it could be that he agreed, signed up and then regretted it. "Norway employs a weak form of mandatory military service for men and women. While 63,841 men and women were called in for the examination of persons liable for military service in 2012 (mandatory for men), 9265 were conscripted.[6] In 2015 conscription was extended to women making Norway the first NATO member and first European country to make national service compulsory for both men and women.[7] There is a right of conscientious objection." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Armed_Forces#cite_note-Norwegian_Armed_Forces_-_Conscription_Statistics-6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Armed_Forces#cite_no... >I don't really care about the "civil service" option. It is still forced labour and violates human rights. Hire people or let them be, that also applies to the state. I have plans with my life, I can't just give a year here and a year there for some random governmental institution that forces me to mostly stand outside and wait or humiliate myself in front of sadistic military superiors. Well then we have a different set of values on one's role in society, I believe that civil service needs to be highly encouraged if not mandatory, I would even put something like a voluntary social year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_social_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_social_year) as a mandatory activity in a university or college and some institutions do have that where you need to vulenteer for a few semesters during your degree.

Kenji 10y ago
That's funny how that works in Norway. In Switzerland, if you ignore all the letters of conscription you get fines and after some years, you will be visited by two very kind policemen who put you in prison. Hmm, that is interesting. What is the benefit of such a social year, as opposed to having the youngsters start either an apprenticeship, where they can learn a trade, or continue and finish their education, and then get into the workforce? If such social labour has to be done, it should be paid accordingly and people should not be forced to do it in my eyes.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  >What is the benefit of such a social year, as opposed to having the youngsters start either an apprenticeship, where they can learn a trade, or continue and finish their education, and then get into the workforce? If such social labour has to be done, it should be paid accordingly and people should not be forced to do it in my eyes. Because I believe that each and every one of us is born with a debt to society and that promoting selflessness and community work is beneficial on moral and ethical grounds for the society as a whole. I don't see anything more wrong with doing a civil service which often you are paid for (not much but are paid for) than saying collecting taxes on your hard work, in fact I would go out and say that I would rather being "forced" to volunteer for a year or two in my youth than pay higher taxes. I also believe that good order, structure and community outreach can help people find their place in society better and to learn more about themselves, society already forces you to do many things I don't see how the fact that you rushed out into the workforce or into a specific education path just to make money any less forced than volunteering at a school, hospital, fire department or anything like that. In fact it can help society on many levels, there is nothing that prevents say a 3rd year CompSci student from teaching programming at a school 2-3 times a week, in fact having a 20 something role model who they can relate too is likely to have a very good positive effect on children and young adults. Volunteering also tends to reshape your perception of society and in my opinion for the better, I was a volunteer EMT since I was 16 and I have done a military service, this is just my experience and my lesson learned.