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How does a 24/7 system make it more difficult to expand?

by ant6n 10y ago

ethanbond 10y ago
Well unless your idea of expansion is digging a new hole that's not connected to any other hole, it matters. Also NYCs system being so old, the control mechanisms are horrendously difficult to modify. The entire subway system is basically a mechanical computer so they can't just add another track and then type a few lines of code into a computer to control the new line. Why are those control systems so old? Well, a 24/7 system is difficult to do maintenance on!
- mafribe 10y ago
  24/7 does raise the bar a bit, but if you have three tunnels not two per line, the problem isn't all that bad. NY has three tunnels as far as I'm aware. In contrast, London's underground has only two which makes it rather difficult to do maintenance at the same time as operate a line. Digging new tunnels should mostly be independent of operations in existing tunnels.
  - ethanbond 10y ago
    Sure but there are times when the lines aren't operating, which is a more crucial point than whether there are three tracks (which is not the case across all of NYC).
  - iamatworknow 10y ago
    >NY has three tunnels as far as I'm aware. Only in some areas, mostly in Manhattan. The outer boroughs, especially in areas where the tracks are elevated, usually only have two. When major track work has to be done the MTA has a habit of just shutting down a line temporarily. For the past couple of years they've been shutting down the 7 train (which goes from 34th street through Times Square in Manhattan to Flushing in Queens) multiple weekends during the summer, and it has had an impact on businesses.
- ant6n 10y ago
  When you expand a hole, the only connection is at the end of the hole. Also, line expansions usually get connected to existing tail tracks. The 2nd Ave has a connection to an existing line that's not at the end, but that single connection isn't the reason for the cost or the slowness of construction. This argument is pure BS that tries to explain New York's incompetence when it comes to planning and building infrastrucure by citing its exceptionalism.
  - ethanbond 10y ago
    No one claimed it's "the reason," and anyone who offers "a reason" for it is lying to you. There are countless interconnected reasons for it, one of which is probably incompetence, sure. One of which is also, in fact, its exceptionalism in being an enormous, ancient, nonstop transit system.
    - ant6n 10y ago
      You yourself made that claim two hours ago: "Most of the NYC transit system is also operating 24/7, which makes expansion and maintenance pretty difficult."
      - ethanbond 10y ago
        Eh, if you read that as me saying that's the sole reason, despite that comment itself being an addendum to another person's comment re: the complexity of this tunnel in particular, then that's just garden variety misunderstanding. Sorry if you read it that way, that's not how I meant it.

How does a 24/7 system make it more difficult to expand?

by ant6n 10y ago

How does a 24/7 system make it more difficult to expand?

Well unless your idea of expansion is digging a new hole that's not connected to any other hole, it matters. Also NYCs system being so old, the control mechanisms are horrendously difficult to modify. The entire subway system is basically a mechanical computer so they can't just add another track and then type a few lines of code into a computer to control the new line. Why are those control systems so old? Well, a 24/7 system is difficult to do maintenance on!

mafribe 10y ago
24/7 does raise the bar a bit, but if you have three tunnels not two per line, the problem isn't all that bad. NY has three tunnels as far as I'm aware. In contrast, London's underground has only two which makes it rather difficult to do maintenance at the same time as operate a line. Digging new tunnels should mostly be independent of operations in existing tunnels.
- ethanbond 10y ago
  Sure but there are times when the lines aren't operating, which is a more crucial point than whether there are three tracks (which is not the case across all of NYC).
- iamatworknow 10y ago
  >NY has three tunnels as far as I'm aware. Only in some areas, mostly in Manhattan. The outer boroughs, especially in areas where the tracks are elevated, usually only have two. When major track work has to be done the MTA has a habit of just shutting down a line temporarily. For the past couple of years they've been shutting down the 7 train (which goes from 34th street through Times Square in Manhattan to Flushing in Queens) multiple weekends during the summer, and it has had an impact on businesses.
ant6n 10y ago
When you expand a hole, the only connection is at the end of the hole. Also, line expansions usually get connected to existing tail tracks. The 2nd Ave has a connection to an existing line that's not at the end, but that single connection isn't the reason for the cost or the slowness of construction. This argument is pure BS that tries to explain New York's incompetence when it comes to planning and building infrastrucure by citing its exceptionalism.
- ethanbond 10y ago
  No one claimed it's "the reason," and anyone who offers "a reason" for it is lying to you. There are countless interconnected reasons for it, one of which is probably incompetence, sure. One of which is also, in fact, its exceptionalism in being an enormous, ancient, nonstop transit system.
  - ant6n 10y ago
    You yourself made that claim two hours ago: "Most of the NYC transit system is also operating 24/7, which makes expansion and maintenance pretty difficult."
    - ethanbond 10y ago
      Eh, if you read that as me saying that's the sole reason, despite that comment itself being an addendum to another person's comment re: the complexity of this tunnel in particular, then that's just garden variety misunderstanding. Sorry if you read it that way, that's not how I meant it.