5 ms·

There's a big middle group, people who generally touch-type with the best of them, but couldn't touch-type an Fn key to save Manhattan. They just aren't that u

There's a big middle group, people who generally touch-type with the best of them, but couldn't touch-type an Fn key to save Manhattan. They just aren't that useful for many people, and so the muscle memory never forms. (They are also really far from home row on some keyboards)

JoshTriplett 10y ago
> They just aren't that useful for many people, and so the muscle memory never forms. I'd be surprised if the majority of touch-typists on Windows don't have muscle-memory for Alt-F4, at a minimum. > They are also really far from home row on some keyboards Fair enough; helps that I exclusively use and prefer laptop keyboards, to the point of having a USB ThinkPad keyboard/mouse combo on my desk.
- rayiner 10y ago
  But there is no commonly used Mac shortcut that uses the function keys.
  - ghshephard 10y ago
    escape key being the one exception. That is in my muscle memory.
  - bobsil1 10y ago
    Esc, play/pause, mute, volume down, volume up, Cmd+option+eject (sleep)
  - fourthark 10y ago
    Show desktop.
  - kriro 10y ago
    I pretty much only use ESC, F11 (show desktop) and F5 to reload the browser + the occasional f6 to jump to the browser address bar. I've also reversed the standard mapping so F11 is triggered without the fn-key.
    - 4ad 10y ago
      show desktop: I use the trackpad gesture reload: cmd+r jump to browser bar: cmd+l I have no idea what Esc does, I never use it.
      - afishisafish 10y ago
        Esc: cancel dialog
- ghostly_s 10y ago
  Function key shortcuts have never been a significant Mac paradigm, and for good reason. Apple certainly would never put something OS-centric like 'close window' on a function key. They use contextually-relevant letter keys for shortcuts, and have been on a decades-long crusade to destroy the F-keys entirely. They haven't shipped a system with function keys that defaulted to function keys in 15 years; it's third-party software and the odd legacy text-based UI where you find them. The controls these are used for by typical users (volume, music, brightness) are not really things you need to be able to hit without looking, and exactly why I can see this succeeding on the Macbook where it was a frustration on the X1.
  - x0x0 10y ago
    fwiw, I regularly use the back/forward/play buttons on my mac keyboards, and I can touch type them. That and option-shift-volume buttons to move volume up/down quarter ticks which is super helpful with earbuds that get way too loud otherwise.
    - wingerlang 10y ago
      I can touch type F1, F2, F11, F12 because they are brightness and volume up down. At F7-F10 there are music controls, I would assume I hit them with 80% accuracy or less if I try to hit them directly. Really sad to see them go, as well as the esc button. I'm still on a 2008 macbook, and it was just kicked off from new OS updates (just updated to El Capitan) and the "next" device I look at and like is like 2013 model or something.
      - ddalex 10y ago
        I am using Linux on a white Macbook from 2008 with an SSD. I still get OS updates, and while not a beast, it does a decent job for what I need (code editing, browsing).
        wingerlang 10y ago
        Oh yeah, I have almost no qualms about using this old one, well except for the fact that it is officially not receiving new OS versions - which eventually will become an issue. The small resolution, no battery life, slow processor are only minor annoyances to me. It is fast enough for me, I do iOS development/browsing/movies.
- misingnoglic 10y ago
  Even though I have a general sense, I always look to check, as I don't want to do something crazy, eg press alt+f4
ashark 10y ago
I used to be pretty good at touch-typing to them back when lots of games used the F keys (Mechwarrior series, Dark Forces II, X-Wing, that sort of thing). These days just mashing in the general area of F4/F5/F6 (quick save in many games) is all I can manage without looking. I've also gotten worse at the number row now that few games use more than the first 3-4 for quick slots or weapons.
jmkni 10y ago
I would be surprised if any developer who regularly used an IDE hadn't memorized the various function keys for debugging etc
- sliverstorm 10y ago
  Believe it or not, but there are touch typists who aren't developers. Quite a lot, in fact.

JoshTriplett 10y ago

> They just aren't that useful for many people, and so the muscle memory never forms. I'd be surprised if the majority of touch-typists on Windows don't have muscle-memory for Alt-F4, at a minimum. > They are also really far from home row on some keyboards Fair enough; helps that I exclusively use and prefer laptop keyboards, to the point of having a USB ThinkPad keyboard/mouse combo on my desk.

rayiner 10y ago
But there is no commonly used Mac shortcut that uses the function keys.
- ghshephard 10y ago
  escape key being the one exception. That is in my muscle memory.
- bobsil1 10y ago
  Esc, play/pause, mute, volume down, volume up, Cmd+option+eject (sleep)
- fourthark 10y ago
  Show desktop.
- kriro 10y ago
  I pretty much only use ESC, F11 (show desktop) and F5 to reload the browser + the occasional f6 to jump to the browser address bar. I've also reversed the standard mapping so F11 is triggered without the fn-key.
  - 4ad 10y ago
    show desktop: I use the trackpad gesture reload: cmd+r jump to browser bar: cmd+l I have no idea what Esc does, I never use it.
    - afishisafish 10y ago
      Esc: cancel dialog
ghostly_s 10y ago
Function key shortcuts have never been a significant Mac paradigm, and for good reason. Apple certainly would never put something OS-centric like 'close window' on a function key. They use contextually-relevant letter keys for shortcuts, and have been on a decades-long crusade to destroy the F-keys entirely. They haven't shipped a system with function keys that defaulted to function keys in 15 years; it's third-party software and the odd legacy text-based UI where you find them. The controls these are used for by typical users (volume, music, brightness) are not really things you need to be able to hit without looking, and exactly why I can see this succeeding on the Macbook where it was a frustration on the X1.
- x0x0 10y ago
  fwiw, I regularly use the back/forward/play buttons on my mac keyboards, and I can touch type them. That and option-shift-volume buttons to move volume up/down quarter ticks which is super helpful with earbuds that get way too loud otherwise.
  - wingerlang 10y ago
    I can touch type F1, F2, F11, F12 because they are brightness and volume up down. At F7-F10 there are music controls, I would assume I hit them with 80% accuracy or less if I try to hit them directly. Really sad to see them go, as well as the esc button. I'm still on a 2008 macbook, and it was just kicked off from new OS updates (just updated to El Capitan) and the "next" device I look at and like is like 2013 model or something.
    - ddalex 10y ago
      I am using Linux on a white Macbook from 2008 with an SSD. I still get OS updates, and while not a beast, it does a decent job for what I need (code editing, browsing).
      - wingerlang 10y ago
        Oh yeah, I have almost no qualms about using this old one, well except for the fact that it is officially not receiving new OS versions - which eventually will become an issue. The small resolution, no battery life, slow processor are only minor annoyances to me. It is fast enough for me, I do iOS development/browsing/movies.
misingnoglic 10y ago
Even though I have a general sense, I always look to check, as I don't want to do something crazy, eg press alt+f4

ashark 10y ago

I used to be pretty good at touch-typing to them back when lots of games used the F keys (Mechwarrior series, Dark Forces II, X-Wing, that sort of thing). These days just mashing in the general area of F4/F5/F6 (quick save in many games) is all I can manage without looking. I've also gotten worse at the number row now that few games use more than the first 3-4 for quick slots or weapons.

jmkni 10y ago

I would be surprised if any developer who regularly used an IDE hadn't memorized the various function keys for debugging etc

sliverstorm 10y ago
Believe it or not, but there are touch typists who aren't developers. Quite a lot, in fact.