5 ms·

"I hated the "touch-strip" function keys, both because they have no boundaries between keys and because they have no tactile feedback when pressing." I don't k

by st3v3r 10y ago

"I hated the "touch-strip" function keys, both because they have no boundaries between keys and because they have no tactile feedback when pressing." I don't know about the boundary between keys thing, but for tactile feedback: Force Touch? "The "context bar" seems like a huge win for people who look at the keyboard (who do comprise a huge fraction of the market), and a huge loss for touch-typists." I don't think so. I touch-type, but I hardly ever touch-type the function bar. Doubly so on a Mac, because the function bar is, by default, used for brightness and media controls.

JoshTriplett 10y ago
> I don't know about the boundary between keys thing, but for tactile feedback: Force Touch? I've (briefly) used a device with Force Touch. It doesn't come anywhere close to replacing the depress-and-release of a physical key. It's better than nothing, barely. But I don't want to use a tablet with an on-screen keyboard as my primary productivity device; I want to use a laptop with a physical keyboard. > I don't think so. I touch-type, but I hardly ever touch-type the function bar. Doubly so on a Mac, because the function bar is, by default, used for brightness and media controls. That seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I also know many Mac users who don't know why anyone would need a right mouse button, let alone a middle mouse button. If you design your interface to not need it, and you know people will never run third-party applications that do, then sure.
- ghostly_s 10y ago
  Nobody does need a second or third mouse button. I spend hours a day in Mac, Linux, and Windows desktops and the pointing experience with a trackpad on a Macbook blows away what you get on any of the others, no matter what hardware is plugged in.
  - serge2k 10y ago
    Yes, but you have to configure it. You setup your gestures, fix their backwards idiotic "[un]natural-scrolling", and make sure you have your right mouse button setup.
    - foldr 10y ago
      The right mouse button is set up by default.
  - vacri 10y ago
    You'll get my highlight-buffer-paste-on-middle-click only if you pry it from my cold, dead hands. If you've trained yourself to only need one button, then yes, you only need one button. But look how well that's worked out on the iPhone, with a heavily-overloaded one button, with hard-to-discover functionality.
  - eth0up 10y ago
    Running Debian on an old Macbook 4,1 (2008) on my first ever Mac and am not thrilled with the trackpad, or the keyboard layout. The best configuration I've yet mustered is: #!/bin/bash synclient TapButton1=1 synclient TapButton2=3 synclient TapButton3=2 This gives a minimally usable touchpad, with two-finger-tap right-click, side-scroll and tap-select. I am still scratching my head at the absence of right-click and the key layout. I have no actual Mac OS experience to compare to, but Imagine they've done it all well when it's used as intended. Otherwise, it's working great and the build quality is solid. I am already fantasizing about Linux on a newer model, maybe with a PC mouse or external touchpad though.
- muninn_ 10y ago
  Well it's ok because it's a function bar, which is barely used on any Mac at all, aside from (as others have pointed out) odd cases or people who are super dedicated to some sort of function mapping. The right click thing is astounding to me... Everybody uses right click. Mac or not.
- foldr 10y ago
  >I also know many Mac users who don't know why anyone would need a right mouse button Macs have effectively had right mouse buttons for around a decade. Two finger click on the trackpad, or a literal right click on an Apple mouse (there just isn't a physically separate right button).
hn_user2 10y ago
Just an aside you can change the configuration to default to function keys and require th fn key for the system functions like brightness and volume. It's the first thing I swap. Hate having to debug with one finger on the Fn key.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  I'm glad you can do that, but I'm not going to. The only time I really use those keys is for the brightness/media controls.
- jamestnz 10y ago
  You can even change this on a key-by-key basis using a neat tool called FunctionFlip. This enables you to have certain F Keys work natively, while other F Keys require you to hold down Fn... http://kevingessner.com/software/functionflip/ http://kevingessner.com/software/functionflip/

by st3v3r 10y ago

JoshTriplett 10y ago

> I don't know about the boundary between keys thing, but for tactile feedback: Force Touch? I've (briefly) used a device with Force Touch. It doesn't come anywhere close to replacing the depress-and-release of a physical key. It's better than nothing, barely. But I don't want to use a tablet with an on-screen keyboard as my primary productivity device; I want to use a laptop with a physical keyboard. > I don't think so. I touch-type, but I hardly ever touch-type the function bar. Doubly so on a Mac, because the function bar is, by default, used for brightness and media controls. That seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I also know many Mac users who don't know why anyone would need a right mouse button, let alone a middle mouse button. If you design your interface to not need it, and you know people will never run third-party applications that do, then sure.

ghostly_s 10y ago
Nobody does need a second or third mouse button. I spend hours a day in Mac, Linux, and Windows desktops and the pointing experience with a trackpad on a Macbook blows away what you get on any of the others, no matter what hardware is plugged in.
- serge2k 10y ago
  Yes, but you have to configure it. You setup your gestures, fix their backwards idiotic "[un]natural-scrolling", and make sure you have your right mouse button setup.
  - foldr 10y ago
    The right mouse button is set up by default.
- vacri 10y ago
  You'll get my highlight-buffer-paste-on-middle-click only if you pry it from my cold, dead hands. If you've trained yourself to only need one button, then yes, you only need one button. But look how well that's worked out on the iPhone, with a heavily-overloaded one button, with hard-to-discover functionality.
- eth0up 10y ago
  Running Debian on an old Macbook 4,1 (2008) on my first ever Mac and am not thrilled with the trackpad, or the keyboard layout. The best configuration I've yet mustered is: #!/bin/bash synclient TapButton1=1 synclient TapButton2=3 synclient TapButton3=2 This gives a minimally usable touchpad, with two-finger-tap right-click, side-scroll and tap-select. I am still scratching my head at the absence of right-click and the key layout. I have no actual Mac OS experience to compare to, but Imagine they've done it all well when it's used as intended. Otherwise, it's working great and the build quality is solid. I am already fantasizing about Linux on a newer model, maybe with a PC mouse or external touchpad though.
muninn_ 10y ago
Well it's ok because it's a function bar, which is barely used on any Mac at all, aside from (as others have pointed out) odd cases or people who are super dedicated to some sort of function mapping. The right click thing is astounding to me... Everybody uses right click. Mac or not.
foldr 10y ago
>I also know many Mac users who don't know why anyone would need a right mouse button Macs have effectively had right mouse buttons for around a decade. Two finger click on the trackpad, or a literal right click on an Apple mouse (there just isn't a physically separate right button).

hn_user2 10y ago

Just an aside you can change the configuration to default to function keys and require th fn key for the system functions like brightness and volume. It's the first thing I swap. Hate having to debug with one finger on the Fn key.

st3v3r 10y ago
I'm glad you can do that, but I'm not going to. The only time I really use those keys is for the brightness/media controls.
jamestnz 10y ago
You can even change this on a key-by-key basis using a neat tool called FunctionFlip. This enables you to have certain F Keys work natively, while other F Keys require you to hold down Fn... http://kevingessner.com/software/functionflip/ http://kevingessner.com/software/functionflip/