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Unfortunately, it looks a bit like they're going with the ultra-low key travel keyboards on these new models. Very disappointed to see this. I don't understan
by davesque 10y ago
Unfortunately, it looks a bit like they're going with the ultra-low key travel keyboards on these new models. Very disappointed to see this. I don't understand why Apple thinks its users want this.
- malft 10y agoSecure payments? If you hook up a display to the secure enclave, suddenly it's really expensive for malware to steal your money. (Sorry, replied to the wrong comment and apparently can't delete now?)
- gkoberger 10y agoWhile I'm not a fan either, don't confuse "what I want" with "what users want".
- davesque 10y agoThat's what I'm saying though. I know that other people might want this, but I have a hard time understanding how that could be true. Did anyone really ask for it?
- rayiner 10y agoI want it! The butterfly keyboards are fantastic. If you hit a key on a corner, they don't "roll" like keyboards with more travel do. Also, they're thinner and all else being equal will allow for a bigger battery (or maintaining battery size while making the laptop thinner).
- davesque 10y agoAll true I guess. Personally, I never noticed any issues with hitting keys on the corner with the scissor-switches. It's never caused a single problem for me. On the other hand, the butterfly keys seem like they could cause RSI issues.
- rayiner 10y agoHow?
- ant6n 10y agoWhat's the advantage of a laptop that's 12mm rather than 13mm?
- idlewords 10y ago1mm!
- redial 10y agoThat's the thing, there is no advantage. But there certainly is an advantage going from ~24mm (original titanium powerbook) to ~13mm (macbook 12). And we only got here by reducing 1mm at a time.
- ant6n 10y agoAs far as a clamshell laptops go, going from 13mm to 4mm doesn't sound that useful though. Especially if in order to do it, I have to sacrifice key travel.
- eslaught 10y agoI buy clothes that follow fashion trends because when I go to the store there is often literally nothing else to buy, even if I don't particularly like it. I know a lot of people who behave similarly. Yes, I'm choosing to prioritize effort over preference here---the clothes might not be what I want but they're not actually bad enough to make me go to the effort to find better. Similarly, I will likely buy the new MacBook Pro despite some elements being unnecessary or suboptimal. The laptop is important enough to me that if the keyboard were actually bad enough to outweigh the other benefits I might be incentivized to go to eBay to buy a used one. But realistically, I'll probably survive just fine with the new keyboard. It just makes the experience less "magical" than it could be. And I suspect a lot of people are in the same boat.
- onion2k 10y agoI go to the store There's more than one store.
- eertami 10y ago>There's more than one store. I mean, this is an Apple thread...
- onion2k 10y agoComplaining that there are no nice keyboards when you're determined to buy an Apple laptop is like complaining that there aren't any clothes you like after you've decided to only shop at GAP. You can either shop elsewhere or put up with the limited offering. Or use an external keyboard (for your laptop, not your clothes).
- natch 10y agoProbably has to do with thinness. I say this without meaning to imply that thinness should override other design goals... personally I care less about it than Apple seems to.
- valine 10y agoAfter trying one of their ultra thin keyboards I can't say I actually mind it. The wide keys feel great to type on, although the shallowness definitely takes some getting used to. I do the majority of my typing on a Das Keyboard Mehcanical Keyboard, so I was quite surprised with how much I enjoyed Apple's thin keys.
- davesque 10y agoThat's reassuring I guess. I admit I haven't put in a lot of time on a butterfly keyboard.
- ttul 10y agoI now prefer the low travel keyboard and find it weird to type on an older Mac keyboard...
- inopinatus 10y agoI still pine for the sculpted aluminium* keys of my old 2007 MacBook Pro. These replacement squares of black plastic have never endeared themselves. For desktop use the DasKeyboard (with the blue 'clicky' keys) is probably still my top recommendation for feedback lovers, albeit in second place behind a late-'90s IBM model that is long out of production.
- serge2k 10y ago> second place behind a late-'90s IBM model that is long out of production. You try http://www.pckeyboard.com/ http://www.pckeyboard.com/ ?
- Clubber 10y agoI have one of those keyboards and love it, but it's too noisy when sharing a room. It can also be used as a highly effective weapon if need be. I currently use the CODE keyboard. It's ok.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- empath75 10y agoWhat people do want is very thin, light laptops, though.
- awinder 10y agoHas apple ever really tested this though, because there's enough going on in each iteration that it'd be very hard to scientifically gauge the effects of singular decisions or changes. Maybe they're chasing diminishing returns at this point, maybe there are sacred things that you can't go after. Or maybe none of it really matters and people are buying for reasons unrelated to dropping case size by .1" or .3 lbs
- troupe 10y agoMany airlines let you use a laptop during take off an landing if it is less than 2 pounds.
- davesque 10y agoThat's kinda funny if true because I can't imagine that weight is really a reliable indicator of how much radio interference a laptop puts out.
- BillinghamJ 10y agoIt's not about interference - it's about how bad a projectile the object would be. Below 2 pounds, the idea is that it wouldn't do too much damage.
- troupe 10y agoThe 2 pound limit is because that is the amount the FAA has determined is safe to keep in the seat back pocket in addition to the stuff that is already in there. The idea is that if there is turbulence you'd put it in the pocket. If radio interference actually was a threat, there is no way they would let every passenger take a phone on the plane.
- 10y ago
- reneherse 10y agoThe feel of the last several generations of Apple keyboards has been all over the place, so it seems like they're continually iterating and testing. That said, I'm not sure optimizing key feel is what they're after. Of all of them, my favorite (and my business partner's as well) is the last generation of 15" non-Retina Macbook Pro. That keyboard is a rocket ship.
- tedmiston 10y agoI love the feel of the 15" rMBP (mine is sometime in 2013), though I don't think it's any different than earlier non-retinas, at least in key travel and size. The new low profile MacBook keyboards are almost unbearable to type on compared the nice feel of the current and Apple external keyboards.
- kctess5 10y agoI have the same model, totally agree! I think 2013 15" rMBP was the pinnacle of apple laptop design.
- reneherse 10y agoThe non-retina MBP keys have less sideways "wiggle", require just a touch more initial pressure to actuate, and have a slightly greater travel. Compared to my rMBP, they have a delightful tactile "crispness" and give the device a feeling of precision. If I were a hardware guy I'd put that keyboard in its own case and use it forever :)
- tedmiston 10y agoThat sounds consistent with my experience with the older Apple Wireless Keyboard (second or third gen). I always wished they'd make one with black key caps and the backlight.
- metafunctor 10y agoThe current Magic Keyboard has excellent tactile feedback. Key travel is short, but not too short, and feedback is clear and crisp. The tiny arrow keys bother me a bit, because I use arrow keys a lot. Overall, I find it to be much better than the 2015 MBP with it's “butterfly” mechanism.
- brendan_a_b 10y agoHow can you not understand that someone would have a different preference than yours? Personally, I much prefer the butterfly keys. The key strokes feel very crisp and clean. Switching back to my Macbook Pro the keys feel wobbly and isn't as enjoyable.
- satysin 10y agoI hated having to use the new MacBook. It felt like I was using a BlackBerry keyboard.
- madeofpalk 10y agoLots of people have trouble separating "butterfly keys" from "shallow keys". The 12" MacBook has both (IMHO, horrendously shallow keys), whereas the new standalone keyboards the butterfly keys but with more travel (and isnt as bad)
- tedmiston 10y agoI don't even really care about butterfly vs scissor keys. It's the key travel distance that really matters to me: having some tactile feedback. The new MacBooks feel like typing against a solid board.
- eric_h 10y agoWhen I first got my MacBook, I agreed with you. However, when it stopped working and I switched back to my 11" air, I found the depth of the key press actually annoyingly too much
- madeofpalk 10y agoWhat this tells us is that what's upsetting is the change, not that one keyboard is better than the other.
- tedmiston 10y ago
- ClassyJacket 10y agoI want it. Why have travel I don't need slowing down my typing?
- idlewords 10y agoI bought a macbook last week and ended up having to return it over that butterfly keyboard. Usually with a new laptop, I can adjust after a couple of days, but this one killed my hands. I worry that Apple are now pursuing thinness for thinness' sake, past the point where it makes ergonomic sense. The machine was gorgeous, but felt like a child's laptop. It's the first Apple computer I've ever returned.
- mconzen 10y agoI think the low travel keys will fit much better with the touch function key bar. Hitting flat glass will probably feel less jarring than with the current Macbook keyboards.
- beedogs 10y agoApple doesn't care what its power users want anymore. They've devolved into a company that sells shiny, underpowered, overpriced trinkets to cashed-up fools.
- nodesocket 10y agoEnjoy your Lenovo.
- beedogs 10y agoI'm sure it'll be a much better experience than what Apple's got to offer these days. It's an absolute embarrassment what's happened to that company.
- nodesocket 10y agoWow, compared to what manufacture do you think makes the best hardware then? Seems like you've got a personal rage with AAPL.
- beedogs 10y agoSeems to me you're being a bit presumptuous. I've been using Apple products since OS 7, and I've owned Apple products since 2006. So that's 10 years of brand loyalty, and thousands upon thousands of dollars in hardware purchases. I'm ready to give it all up and move back to Windows. Apple has been heading down the wrong path with their PCs for the past few years, with underperforming, overpriced, very buggy hardware and an increasingly annoying-to-use OS X, and this is the last straw for me.
- nodesocket 10y agoI'd be really curious to hear what specific buggy hardware or annoying features of OS X are an issue for you. I'll be the first to admit, the innovation in terms of using the latest and greatest hardware and software technologies has not been there for Apple. However, this has been the case for a long time since Apple does something genius. They let other companies test new markets, built first to market products, watch them struggle, refine, and evaluate the market. Then, when the timing is just perfect, and a frenzy has been created they release a new product. Their products are like the Mercedes-Benz of cars. Sure, they aren't as fast and high performance as Ferrari or Lamborghini, but they are quality built, reliable, familiar to owners, and pleasant to drive.