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> Do you accept that most people who use it can enjoy it but there are some unfortunates who can't and that's just the price of the freedom to drink? Do you ac

by ythl 10y ago

> Do you accept that most people who use it can enjoy it but there are some unfortunates who can't and that's just the price of the freedom to drink? Do you accept that most people who own and use guns do so responsibly but that there are some unfortunates who can't and that's just the price of the freedom to own and use guns?

pstuart 10y ago
I'm not pro-gun but I recognize the effective "right" to own them (not going to debate the Second Amendment with you). That said, I think there's a lot of unhealthy gun fetishization and lots of tragic deaths from irresponsible gun owners. I believe in personal freedom up to the point where that freedom impedes on that of another. What you put in your body is your own god damn business. One more argument in my favor: obesity is reaching epidemic levels in America and has a great societal cost. Do you think we should make junk food illegal to protect those that can't control themselves. Every one of your arguments has been inadequate. Ignore the hurt of me calling you out and think about my point. The War on Drugs has done far more harm than good. It's bad policy and if you research it, did not have any good intentions behind it.
- ythl 10y ago
  > That said, I think there's a lot of unhealthy gun fetishization and lots of tragic deaths from irresponsible gun owners. Right, but my point was that cost is worth the freedom. There's a lot of unhealthy drug fetishization and tragic deaths from irresponsible drug users too, and I think you already said the cost is worth the freedom. > I believe in personal freedom up to the point where that freedom impedes on that of another. What you put in your body is your own god damn business. If the world worked like that, I would agree with you whole-heartedly. But in real life, drug users end up killing or otherwise abusing people around them (whether it be through DUIs, child neglect, safety mistakes, etc.). So along with drug legalization there have to be dozens of secondary laws that outline what you can and can't do under the influence, where you can and can't go, etc. And people (of course, not thinking clearly while under the influence), will break these laws anyway and end up killing people, destroying property, etc. > Do you think we should make junk food illegal to protect those that can't control themselves. Completely illegal? No. But I see the value in limiting accessibility to junk food, especially in schools and such, where kids are still developing self-discipline. So maybe that's where I can agree with you.
  - pstuart 10y ago
    You ignore the cost of the War itself. Billions of dollars. Massive corruption. Drug gangs. Abusive Policing. Crowded courts and prisons. Legalize them. Regulate them. Treat their abuse as a health issue, not a criminal one. When my brother overdosed on heroin, the police laughed about just another dead junkie. Yeah, I feel so much safer.
    - ythl 10y ago
      > Treat their abuse as a health issue, not a criminal one. A health issue with a cost burden on responsible people who exercise good judgment. Addicts rarely pay for their own treatment. > When my brother overdosed on heroin, the police laughed about just another dead junkie. Yeah, I feel so much safer. As far as I know, my entire extended family has not has a single drug abuse case. And certainly a drug death would be unheard of. We were all taught growing up that mind-altering substances should be avoided at all costs, and it paid off with a virtual 0% drug usage rate in the family. Contrast with your family where you yourself openly admit to using drugs recreationally and think they are good, yet your brother died overdosing on them. I would venture to guess that there are other, unnamed members of your family that use drugs and have or had drug problems in the past. The best and simplest place to stop drug abuse is in the home via good parenting. That is my vision for what America should strive for. I can't lend my support to your cause because I don't believe in it. I believe that if my parents and grandparents taught us it was okay to experiment "safely" with drugs and such that the amount of drug abuse in the extended family would go way up. Good luck-
      - pstuart 10y ago
        You're a fucking idiot and I'm clearly wasting my time.
        fucking_tragedy 10y ago
        I've quite literally never seen someone stoop so low as to use someone's dead relative to prop up an argument that can't stand on its own. My condolences.
jjawssd 10y ago
Do you accept that most people who own and use cars do so responsibly but that there are some unfortunates who can't and that's just the price of the freedom to own and use cars?

by ythl 10y ago

pstuart 10y ago

I'm not pro-gun but I recognize the effective "right" to own them (not going to debate the Second Amendment with you). That said, I think there's a lot of unhealthy gun fetishization and lots of tragic deaths from irresponsible gun owners. I believe in personal freedom up to the point where that freedom impedes on that of another. What you put in your body is your own god damn business. One more argument in my favor: obesity is reaching epidemic levels in America and has a great societal cost. Do you think we should make junk food illegal to protect those that can't control themselves. Every one of your arguments has been inadequate. Ignore the hurt of me calling you out and think about my point. The War on Drugs has done far more harm than good. It's bad policy and if you research it, did not have any good intentions behind it.

ythl 10y ago
> That said, I think there's a lot of unhealthy gun fetishization and lots of tragic deaths from irresponsible gun owners. Right, but my point was that cost is worth the freedom. There's a lot of unhealthy drug fetishization and tragic deaths from irresponsible drug users too, and I think you already said the cost is worth the freedom. > I believe in personal freedom up to the point where that freedom impedes on that of another. What you put in your body is your own god damn business. If the world worked like that, I would agree with you whole-heartedly. But in real life, drug users end up killing or otherwise abusing people around them (whether it be through DUIs, child neglect, safety mistakes, etc.). So along with drug legalization there have to be dozens of secondary laws that outline what you can and can't do under the influence, where you can and can't go, etc. And people (of course, not thinking clearly while under the influence), will break these laws anyway and end up killing people, destroying property, etc. > Do you think we should make junk food illegal to protect those that can't control themselves. Completely illegal? No. But I see the value in limiting accessibility to junk food, especially in schools and such, where kids are still developing self-discipline. So maybe that's where I can agree with you.
- pstuart 10y ago
  You ignore the cost of the War itself. Billions of dollars. Massive corruption. Drug gangs. Abusive Policing. Crowded courts and prisons. Legalize them. Regulate them. Treat their abuse as a health issue, not a criminal one. When my brother overdosed on heroin, the police laughed about just another dead junkie. Yeah, I feel so much safer.
  - ythl 10y ago
    > Treat their abuse as a health issue, not a criminal one. A health issue with a cost burden on responsible people who exercise good judgment. Addicts rarely pay for their own treatment. > When my brother overdosed on heroin, the police laughed about just another dead junkie. Yeah, I feel so much safer. As far as I know, my entire extended family has not has a single drug abuse case. And certainly a drug death would be unheard of. We were all taught growing up that mind-altering substances should be avoided at all costs, and it paid off with a virtual 0% drug usage rate in the family. Contrast with your family where you yourself openly admit to using drugs recreationally and think they are good, yet your brother died overdosing on them. I would venture to guess that there are other, unnamed members of your family that use drugs and have or had drug problems in the past. The best and simplest place to stop drug abuse is in the home via good parenting. That is my vision for what America should strive for. I can't lend my support to your cause because I don't believe in it. I believe that if my parents and grandparents taught us it was okay to experiment "safely" with drugs and such that the amount of drug abuse in the extended family would go way up. Good luck-
    - pstuart 10y ago
      You're a fucking idiot and I'm clearly wasting my time.
      - fucking_tragedy 10y ago
        I've quite literally never seen someone stoop so low as to use someone's dead relative to prop up an argument that can't stand on its own. My condolences.

jjawssd 10y ago

Do you accept that most people who own and use cars do so responsibly but that there are some unfortunates who can't and that's just the price of the freedom to own and use cars?