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ZCash has a myriad of fundamental issues, chief among them: -ZCash is a US-based LLC, and given what is publicly known about the capabilities and past behavior

by pero 10y ago

ZCash has a myriad of fundamental issues, chief among them: -ZCash is a US-based LLC, and given what is publicly known about the capabilities and past behavior of its intelligence apparatus I don't see how anyone can claim that such an organization can shepherd a 'truly anonymous blockchain', particularly one that is essentially a black box -ZCash's blockchain is a black box and requires you to not only trust them with your anonymity, but also to trust them not to create coins arbitrarily - a successful attacker could also mint coins at will - as there is no way to verify circulation -Anonymous transactions are optional and require tremendous resources to generate -It is an innovative take on a pre-mine where insiders were given opportunity to pre-purchase coins at the expense of future miners I suggest that anyone looking for a truly anonymous blockchain experience take a look at Monero.

Ar-Curunir 10y ago
> I suggest that anyone looking for a truly anonymous blockchain experience take a look at Monero. And I suggest that anyone looking for strong provable anonymity guarantees not look at Monero. The security guarantees of ZCash are stronger than those of Monero, and the trusted setup issue can be mitigated via the MPC protocol detailed in a recent paper. EDIT: compromising the trusted setup does not compromise anonymity; the zero knowledge proofs used enjoy a property known as "perfect zero knowledge".
ewillbefull 10y ago
> ZCash's blockchain is a black box and requires you to not only trust them with your anonymity You do not trust anyone with your privacy in our system. Assuming you're talking about our zk-SNARK parameters, if they were not securely generated you still could not violate anyone's privacy.
tribby 10y ago
> ZCash is a US-based LLC, and given what is publicly known about the capabilities and past behavior of its intelligence apparatus [...] why does it matter where zcash is incorporated when the apparatus you're describing operates without regard for borders? zcash is the first effort at a cryptocurrency where I have immense respect and trust for its team right out of the gate. not sure where the FUD is coming from (although I'd hypothesize that you are long monero?). >Anonymous transactions are optional and require tremendous resources to generate this is indeed a problem. hopefully temporary.
- kbart 10y ago
  "why does it matter where zcash is incorporated when the apparatus you're describing operates without regard for borders?" Yes, they can do intelligence ops and attacks in others countries, but can't issue a subpoena along with gag order. Attacks can be defended against, secret court orders - not. A decision to make this currency US based killed it before it was even born. That's sad, because technically ZCash looks quite interesting.
  - tribby 10y ago
    Subpoena for what? There's no useful data to hand over, that's the entire point of zero knowledge.
    - kbart 10y ago
      "Zero knowledge" is not an excuse, it's way too easy to "miss a bug" or few to leak an information. NSA is known to talk/force companies into adding backdoors to their products. Users can never be sure, so why risk it?
      - tribby 10y ago
        It is too easy to miss a bug, which is why there was an audit. I really don't understand the risk of US incorporation that you're talking about, or why it is better or worse than any other country without introducing other potentially even less desirable risks. Can you explain further? More recently the US is known for failing to force companies to add back doors (see Apple/FBI). It's probablg worth noting Jospeh Bonneau (EFF) is on the board of Zcash. I just don't see the risk that you're seeing, sorry.
        kbart 10y ago
        "Can you explain further?" No other western country (to my knowledge) has secret courts, that were also proven to target tech companies. If such reason is not enough for you, I don't know what else could it be then.

by pero 10y ago

Ar-Curunir 10y ago

> I suggest that anyone looking for a truly anonymous blockchain experience take a look at Monero. And I suggest that anyone looking for strong provable anonymity guarantees not look at Monero. The security guarantees of ZCash are stronger than those of Monero, and the trusted setup issue can be mitigated via the MPC protocol detailed in a recent paper. EDIT: compromising the trusted setup does not compromise anonymity; the zero knowledge proofs used enjoy a property known as "perfect zero knowledge".

ewillbefull 10y ago

> ZCash's blockchain is a black box and requires you to not only trust them with your anonymity You do not trust anyone with your privacy in our system. Assuming you're talking about our zk-SNARK parameters, if they were not securely generated you still could not violate anyone's privacy.

tribby 10y ago

> ZCash is a US-based LLC, and given what is publicly known about the capabilities and past behavior of its intelligence apparatus [...] why does it matter where zcash is incorporated when the apparatus you're describing operates without regard for borders? zcash is the first effort at a cryptocurrency where I have immense respect and trust for its team right out of the gate. not sure where the FUD is coming from (although I'd hypothesize that you are long monero?). >Anonymous transactions are optional and require tremendous resources to generate this is indeed a problem. hopefully temporary.

kbart 10y ago
"why does it matter where zcash is incorporated when the apparatus you're describing operates without regard for borders?" Yes, they can do intelligence ops and attacks in others countries, but can't issue a subpoena along with gag order. Attacks can be defended against, secret court orders - not. A decision to make this currency US based killed it before it was even born. That's sad, because technically ZCash looks quite interesting.
- tribby 10y ago
  Subpoena for what? There's no useful data to hand over, that's the entire point of zero knowledge.
  - kbart 10y ago
    "Zero knowledge" is not an excuse, it's way too easy to "miss a bug" or few to leak an information. NSA is known to talk/force companies into adding backdoors to their products. Users can never be sure, so why risk it?
    - tribby 10y ago
      It is too easy to miss a bug, which is why there was an audit. I really don't understand the risk of US incorporation that you're talking about, or why it is better or worse than any other country without introducing other potentially even less desirable risks. Can you explain further? More recently the US is known for failing to force companies to add back doors (see Apple/FBI). It's probablg worth noting Jospeh Bonneau (EFF) is on the board of Zcash. I just don't see the risk that you're seeing, sorry.
      - kbart 10y ago
        "Can you explain further?" No other western country (to my knowledge) has secret courts, that were also proven to target tech companies. If such reason is not enough for you, I don't know what else could it be then.