4 ms·

Yup, it's a clever idea, but wait for someone to be the Litecoin to their Tenebrix.

earlz 10y ago
Given how complicated the technology is that they will be working with (as someone who has attempted to read the zcash whitepaper), I find this extremely unlikely. Sure there will be clones, but no altcoin "developer" will be able to properly maintain this, so bugs won't get fixed, or it'll always be lagging behind Zcash, or worse, they introduce unintentional bugs and completely wreck their blockchain and lose the money of the few fools who thought that the developers/company running it getting some money is bad
- problems 10y ago
  I wouldn't be so sure of that, there already exist some alternatives which seem better in some ways like Monero. I have very low trust for scam developers like the ZCash ones, I'm sure someone quite capable could take it up.
  - zby 10y ago
    'scam developers'? A bit harsh isn't it?
    - problems 10y ago
      They're running a pump and dump, sure, they made it rate limited, but a delayed pump and dump is still a pump and dump.
      - conception 10y ago
        A pump and dump that was started at John Hopkins and been being worked on for three years? Wat?
  - SEK3NLM 10y ago
    Whoa, Monero is weak, while Z.cash has a top flight team. This isn't the poloniex trollbox. No need to talk up your investment. All of the HN crowd are quite capable of seeing the team at https://z.cash/team.html https://z.cash/team.html Are Vitalik and Gavin Anderson "Scam developers"? Matthew Green? Is he a "scam cryptographer"?
  - hulahoof 10y ago
    So the developers are scammers because you use an alternative?
  - Ar-Curunir 10y ago
    The people behind ZCash are definitely not "scammers"; they're respected computer scientists and applied cryptography engineers.
    - problems 10y ago
      They may have some flashy names, but there's no truely provable reason to believe they're better than the fly-by-night guys who pop up on bitcoinforums with a new altcoin and dump it as soon as it's up and running. Since there's no cryptographically provable way to know they won't do this, well, we have to assume it's what they'll do. Distrust is the basis for cryptocurrencies afterall.
      - Ar-Curunir 10y ago
        Unlike those fly-by-night guys, these people have their reputations at stake; they've have not only their names associated with this project, but also their academic careers. Moreover, having worked with some of them, I can assure they're not shady no-gooders...
      - meowface 10y ago
        There's no truly provable reason to believe anyone isn't a scammer. Many supposedly reputable people in the finance industry are eventually revealed to be scammers. It's unavoidable. But these guys are much less likely to be scammers than the typical no-name GitHub/Twitter/Bitcoinforums accounts promoting a new revolutionary coin.
      - DennisP 10y ago
        Part of the reason for their share of the mining reward is to give them a strong economic incentive to stick with it for at least four years.
- lukasLansky 10y ago
  a/ It's naive to assume market won't work in this one case and people will happily pass ten percent of their money to support staff just because their work is important. What can be competed away will be competed away. b/ Open source works well for very complicated pieces of software. c/ As we saw in the case of Ethereum, assuming you can buy due diligence with money alone is a mistake.
  - Ar-Curunir 10y ago
    Open source works well for very complicated pieces of software, except for complicated cryptography; the material used in ZCash was developed in papers as recent as 4 yrs ago. Rest assured that most programmers understand nothing about the underlying SNARKs.
    - wslh 10y ago
      You are underestimating passionate and very smart people.
      - Ar-Curunir 10y ago
        I am not underestimating anyone; even within theoretical cryptography, SNARKs are understood by a handful of people.
        wslh 10y ago
        I am a cofounder of a company in this space and three people in my company are in a position to understand it very well. For example Sergio who also blogs here: https://bitslog.wordpress.com https://bitslog.wordpress.com
        Ar-Curunir 10y ago
        I don't see anything there about zkSNARKs?
- nullc 10y ago
  The Zcash additions are significantly less complex than the Bitcoin system overall especially once accepting the ZKP as a tidy black box with clear boundaries.

earlz 10y ago

Given how complicated the technology is that they will be working with (as someone who has attempted to read the zcash whitepaper), I find this extremely unlikely. Sure there will be clones, but no altcoin "developer" will be able to properly maintain this, so bugs won't get fixed, or it'll always be lagging behind Zcash, or worse, they introduce unintentional bugs and completely wreck their blockchain and lose the money of the few fools who thought that the developers/company running it getting some money is bad

problems 10y ago
I wouldn't be so sure of that, there already exist some alternatives which seem better in some ways like Monero. I have very low trust for scam developers like the ZCash ones, I'm sure someone quite capable could take it up.
- zby 10y ago
  'scam developers'? A bit harsh isn't it?
  - problems 10y ago
    They're running a pump and dump, sure, they made it rate limited, but a delayed pump and dump is still a pump and dump.
    - conception 10y ago
      A pump and dump that was started at John Hopkins and been being worked on for three years? Wat?
- SEK3NLM 10y ago
  Whoa, Monero is weak, while Z.cash has a top flight team. This isn't the poloniex trollbox. No need to talk up your investment. All of the HN crowd are quite capable of seeing the team at https://z.cash/team.html https://z.cash/team.html Are Vitalik and Gavin Anderson "Scam developers"? Matthew Green? Is he a "scam cryptographer"?
- hulahoof 10y ago
  So the developers are scammers because you use an alternative?
- Ar-Curunir 10y ago
  The people behind ZCash are definitely not "scammers"; they're respected computer scientists and applied cryptography engineers.
  - problems 10y ago
    They may have some flashy names, but there's no truely provable reason to believe they're better than the fly-by-night guys who pop up on bitcoinforums with a new altcoin and dump it as soon as it's up and running. Since there's no cryptographically provable way to know they won't do this, well, we have to assume it's what they'll do. Distrust is the basis for cryptocurrencies afterall.
    - Ar-Curunir 10y ago
      Unlike those fly-by-night guys, these people have their reputations at stake; they've have not only their names associated with this project, but also their academic careers. Moreover, having worked with some of them, I can assure they're not shady no-gooders...
    - meowface 10y ago
      There's no truly provable reason to believe anyone isn't a scammer. Many supposedly reputable people in the finance industry are eventually revealed to be scammers. It's unavoidable. But these guys are much less likely to be scammers than the typical no-name GitHub/Twitter/Bitcoinforums accounts promoting a new revolutionary coin.
    - DennisP 10y ago
      Part of the reason for their share of the mining reward is to give them a strong economic incentive to stick with it for at least four years.
lukasLansky 10y ago
a/ It's naive to assume market won't work in this one case and people will happily pass ten percent of their money to support staff just because their work is important. What can be competed away will be competed away. b/ Open source works well for very complicated pieces of software. c/ As we saw in the case of Ethereum, assuming you can buy due diligence with money alone is a mistake.
- Ar-Curunir 10y ago
  Open source works well for very complicated pieces of software, except for complicated cryptography; the material used in ZCash was developed in papers as recent as 4 yrs ago. Rest assured that most programmers understand nothing about the underlying SNARKs.
  - wslh 10y ago
    You are underestimating passionate and very smart people.
    - Ar-Curunir 10y ago
      I am not underestimating anyone; even within theoretical cryptography, SNARKs are understood by a handful of people.
      - wslh 10y ago
        I am a cofounder of a company in this space and three people in my company are in a position to understand it very well. For example Sergio who also blogs here: https://bitslog.wordpress.com https://bitslog.wordpress.com
        Ar-Curunir 10y ago
        I don't see anything there about zkSNARKs?
nullc 10y ago
The Zcash additions are significantly less complex than the Bitcoin system overall especially once accepting the ZKP as a tidy black box with clear boundaries.