4 ms·

I can't take AMP seriously as long as it forces web sites to include resources from Google. That basically turns all AMP web pages into something that Google c

by fefe23 10y ago

I can't take AMP seriously as long as it forces web sites to include resources from Google. That basically turns all AMP web pages into something that Google can track. Google can track enough of the web already, thankyouverymuch. If your "standard" proposal starts with telling me I have to include content from a specific URL, you already lost me as a potential proponent. I also happen to disagree with "all CSS needs to be inline". Unless I missed something, CPP appears to not require me to include some 3rd party content, so I'm on board already :-)

acqq 10y ago
Aren't the AMP pages anyway delivered from the Google servers to the users? Then Google can track them anyway? I'm just a casual observer and that's just how I understood the idea.
- mcbits 10y ago
  AMP pages are served from the publisher's server as usual, but Google can easily direct their users to their cache instead of the official site. Every AMP page also includes JavaScript hosted by Google, so Google gets pinged every time someone visits an AMP page, even if it wasn't through their cache.
  - acqq 10y ago
    https://developers.google.com/amp/cache/ https://developers.google.com/amp/cache/ "Google products, including Google Search, serve valid AMP documents and their resources from the cache to provide a fast user experience across the mobile web." So it's Google who does deliver from the cache. Moreover, they motivate others to do the same on the same page.
    - mcbits 10y ago
      Yes, Google can direct its own users to the cache, and others can also link to the cache. But if you or someone else link directly to the page, it is not served from Google's cache. Google would not be able to track those visits except for the fact that the page also loads content (at the very least, the AMP JavaScript) from Google's servers. AFAIK, it is not considered "valid" if you serve the JavaScript yourself.
vmarsy 10y ago
I don't think it forces you to include resources from Google. I think the 2 primary reason Google asks you to include a specific javascript script [1] are : 1 - Lazy & Prioritized asset loading logic 2 - Loading assets from cache Regarding the lazy & prioritized asset loading, the script [2] shouldn't be relying on some Google specific stuff. Since the project is open source, anyone can take a look and get an answer. Regarding the loading from Google's cache: I haven't dug that much into it, but it's supposedly possible to write your own cache service (instead of relying on the currently free google CDN). Google provided the API and the URL format to so that it should be doable [3]. My assumption is that you can then create your own script, with the cache server URL changed to your own instead of Google's in a simple config file[4]. The question is then: by doing so (and effectively cutting any ties with Google's servers) will your page still be recognized as AMP by Google search engine? It will still reap the actual perf benefits (assuming your CDN does not suck), but if Google's crawler really wants that [1] to be present (and it should not), you wouldn't get the SEO benefits. [1] <script async src="https://cdn.ampproject.org/v0.js"></script> [2] https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml [3] https://developers.google.com/amp/cache/ https://developers.google.com/amp/cache/ [4] https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/blob/c44a48fbb1dbd0de0b5a9e20f8f69bb920705dde/src/config.js https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/blob/c44a48fbb1dbd0de0...
rhizome 10y ago
That basically turns all AMP web pages into something that Google can track. Google can track enough of the web already, thankyouverymuch. The point is to be able to track requests with javascript (or just Google Analytics, really) blocked.

by fefe23 10y ago

acqq 10y ago

Aren't the AMP pages anyway delivered from the Google servers to the users? Then Google can track them anyway? I'm just a casual observer and that's just how I understood the idea.

mcbits 10y ago
AMP pages are served from the publisher's server as usual, but Google can easily direct their users to their cache instead of the official site. Every AMP page also includes JavaScript hosted by Google, so Google gets pinged every time someone visits an AMP page, even if it wasn't through their cache.
- acqq 10y ago
  https://developers.google.com/amp/cache/ https://developers.google.com/amp/cache/ "Google products, including Google Search, serve valid AMP documents and their resources from the cache to provide a fast user experience across the mobile web." So it's Google who does deliver from the cache. Moreover, they motivate others to do the same on the same page.
  - mcbits 10y ago
    Yes, Google can direct its own users to the cache, and others can also link to the cache. But if you or someone else link directly to the page, it is not served from Google's cache. Google would not be able to track those visits except for the fact that the page also loads content (at the very least, the AMP JavaScript) from Google's servers. AFAIK, it is not considered "valid" if you serve the JavaScript yourself.

vmarsy 10y ago

I don't think it forces you to include resources from Google. I think the 2 primary reason Google asks you to include a specific javascript script [1] are : 1 - Lazy & Prioritized asset loading logic 2 - Loading assets from cache Regarding the lazy & prioritized asset loading, the script [2] shouldn't be relying on some Google specific stuff. Since the project is open source, anyone can take a look and get an answer. Regarding the loading from Google's cache: I haven't dug that much into it, but it's supposedly possible to write your own cache service (instead of relying on the currently free google CDN). Google provided the API and the URL format to so that it should be doable [3]. My assumption is that you can then create your own script, with the cache server URL changed to your own instead of Google's in a simple config file[4]. The question is then: by doing so (and effectively cutting any ties with Google's servers) will your page still be recognized as AMP by Google search engine? It will still reap the actual perf benefits (assuming your CDN does not suck), but if Google's crawler really wants that [1] to be present (and it should not), you wouldn't get the SEO benefits. [1] <script async src="https://cdn.ampproject.org/v0.js"></script> [2] https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml [3] https://developers.google.com/amp/cache/ https://developers.google.com/amp/cache/ [4] https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/blob/c44a48fbb1dbd0de0b5a9e20f8f69bb920705dde/src/config.js https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/blob/c44a48fbb1dbd0de0...

rhizome 10y ago

That basically turns all AMP web pages into something that Google can track. Google can track enough of the web already, thankyouverymuch. The point is to be able to track requests with javascript (or just Google Analytics, really) blocked.