3 ms·

node releases should ship with yarn instead of npm. Yarn is better all around - faster, deterministic, local caching, offline mode, better licensing terms.

by terink 10y ago

mattnewton 10y ago
Not everyone is down to switch such a core piece of the infrastructure at the first sign of new and shiny. I think yarn will succeed, but so did lots of people about bower, ied, duo, etc. Give it a moment to settle. The path forward might even be a merger instead of replacement.
- terink 10y ago
  node developers have overwhelmingly indicated that they want to switch to yarn and are willing to work through the short term problems until it becomes stable. npm wouldn't be a suitable caretaker for yarn.
  - franciscop 10y ago
    I am sorry, but what? What is your source? From a new account[1] with only 3 comments overwhelmingly favoring yarn over npm it's difficult to trust this as it just seems like SPAM. I have been developing in Node over 3 years and trying new things constantly and no, I'm not really excited about yarn. Nor many Node developers I know. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=terink https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=terink
    - terink 10y ago
      Most devs on Github disagree with you: https://github.com/yarnpkg/yarn https://github.com/yarnpkg/yarn - 17,271 stars https://github.com/npm/npm https://github.com/npm/npm - 10,807 stars
      - franciscop 10y ago
        Ah I see, Github stars. I am not sure they are a good indication though; many people (HN effect?) star something new and fancy when it comes out, while I think NPM can be considered to have "grown" organically with Node.js; which in my experience doesn't attract as many stars at all. When NPM came out the Node community was still in its infancy, with not so many people in the ecosystem. I haven't even starred NPM while I almost starred Yarn the other day.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
alessioalex 10y ago
Not unless you want a lot of people upset that their dependencies aren't installing: "Myles Borins (@thealphanerd) recently ran citgm with yarn, and shared the results. It was 25 minutes faster than npm, but 20 modules failed to install." ( https://nodesource.com/blog/the-definitive-guide-to-the-first-three-days-of-yarn-and-npm/ https://nodesource.com/blog/the-definitive-guide-to-the-firs... )
- terink 10y ago
  These yarn bugs are easily fixable given the repeatable test case.
  - simonlc 10y ago
    Yes but it's definitely not anywhere near ready to ship with node lol.
TheRealPomax 10y ago
Only "in additional to npm", and then really only once yarn is at parity. Right now yarn still has issues installing certain packages, and there is no yarn equivalent to "npm run ..." which is a pretty significant hold-up (projects that rely on npm scripts rather than make files or some other OS-encumbered approach cannot switch over at the moment). It's in the works and slated for a later release, but makes it such that yarn is not a universally viable replacement for npm yet.
- fzzzy 10y ago
  How is npm run not os encumbered? It just calls out to the shell. Does it ship with a consistent shell on every platform and use that?
  - bsharper 10y ago
    I just use JS scripts, because if node is not installed you aren't getting very far anyway. Actions like "copy this file", "clear this subdirectory", and "pull these files over the network" are easy to write synchronously in node, are there are modules for things that aren't. For more complex actions, there are modules like env-cmd or cross-env for setting environmental variables on different platforms. If you had something really complex, you could check os.platform() and then call scripts written for each OS. But you're right, you can't write a .sh shell script and expect it to magically work on Windows.
- steveklabnik 10y ago
  > there is no yarn equivalent to "npm run ..." https://yarnpkg.com/en/docs/cli/run https://yarnpkg.com/en/docs/cli/run ? (I am not primarily a node dev, so I might be missing some nuance here.)
jkrems 10y ago
Well, maybe not before `yarn` actually installs the dependencies of all projects. It still has bugs where it doesn't install "random" transitive dependencies when using `yarn --prod`. Seems premature to make it part of node.
steveklabnik 10y ago
https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9161 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9161 And more specifically, https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9161#issuecomment-254531089 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9161#issuecomment-2545...
- terink 10y ago
  https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9161#issuecomment-254876761 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9161#issuecomment-2548...
  - steveklabnik 10y ago
    I'm not saying this shouldn't be done; I personally will be using yarn for all my future work. It might be a bit early, but regardless, the comment I linked to is about the process that has to happen for that kind of change to be seriously considered.

node releases should ship with yarn instead of npm. Yarn is better all around - faster, deterministic, local caching, offline mode, better licensing terms.

by terink 10y ago

node releases should ship with yarn instead of npm. Yarn is better all around - faster, deterministic, local caching, offline mode, better licensing terms.

mattnewton 10y ago

Not everyone is down to switch such a core piece of the infrastructure at the first sign of new and shiny. I think yarn will succeed, but so did lots of people about bower, ied, duo, etc. Give it a moment to settle. The path forward might even be a merger instead of replacement.

terink 10y ago
node developers have overwhelmingly indicated that they want to switch to yarn and are willing to work through the short term problems until it becomes stable. npm wouldn't be a suitable caretaker for yarn.
- franciscop 10y ago
  I am sorry, but what? What is your source? From a new account[1] with only 3 comments overwhelmingly favoring yarn over npm it's difficult to trust this as it just seems like SPAM. I have been developing in Node over 3 years and trying new things constantly and no, I'm not really excited about yarn. Nor many Node developers I know. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=terink https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=terink
  - terink 10y ago
    Most devs on Github disagree with you: https://github.com/yarnpkg/yarn https://github.com/yarnpkg/yarn - 17,271 stars https://github.com/npm/npm https://github.com/npm/npm - 10,807 stars
    - franciscop 10y ago
      Ah I see, Github stars. I am not sure they are a good indication though; many people (HN effect?) star something new and fancy when it comes out, while I think NPM can be considered to have "grown" organically with Node.js; which in my experience doesn't attract as many stars at all. When NPM came out the Node community was still in its infancy, with not so many people in the ecosystem. I haven't even starred NPM while I almost starred Yarn the other day.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

alessioalex 10y ago

Not unless you want a lot of people upset that their dependencies aren't installing: "Myles Borins (@thealphanerd) recently ran citgm with yarn, and shared the results. It was 25 minutes faster than npm, but 20 modules failed to install." ( https://nodesource.com/blog/the-definitive-guide-to-the-first-three-days-of-yarn-and-npm/ https://nodesource.com/blog/the-definitive-guide-to-the-firs... )

terink 10y ago
These yarn bugs are easily fixable given the repeatable test case.
- simonlc 10y ago
  Yes but it's definitely not anywhere near ready to ship with node lol.

TheRealPomax 10y ago

Only "in additional to npm", and then really only once yarn is at parity. Right now yarn still has issues installing certain packages, and there is no yarn equivalent to "npm run ..." which is a pretty significant hold-up (projects that rely on npm scripts rather than make files or some other OS-encumbered approach cannot switch over at the moment). It's in the works and slated for a later release, but makes it such that yarn is not a universally viable replacement for npm yet.

fzzzy 10y ago
How is npm run not os encumbered? It just calls out to the shell. Does it ship with a consistent shell on every platform and use that?
- bsharper 10y ago
  I just use JS scripts, because if node is not installed you aren't getting very far anyway. Actions like "copy this file", "clear this subdirectory", and "pull these files over the network" are easy to write synchronously in node, are there are modules for things that aren't. For more complex actions, there are modules like env-cmd or cross-env for setting environmental variables on different platforms. If you had something really complex, you could check os.platform() and then call scripts written for each OS. But you're right, you can't write a .sh shell script and expect it to magically work on Windows.
steveklabnik 10y ago
> there is no yarn equivalent to "npm run ..." https://yarnpkg.com/en/docs/cli/run https://yarnpkg.com/en/docs/cli/run ? (I am not primarily a node dev, so I might be missing some nuance here.)

jkrems 10y ago

Well, maybe not before `yarn` actually installs the dependencies of all projects. It still has bugs where it doesn't install "random" transitive dependencies when using `yarn --prod`. Seems premature to make it part of node.

steveklabnik 10y ago

https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9161 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9161 And more specifically, https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9161#issuecomment-254531089 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9161#issuecomment-2545...

terink 10y ago
https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9161#issuecomment-254876761 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/9161#issuecomment-2548...
- steveklabnik 10y ago
  I'm not saying this shouldn't be done; I personally will be using yarn for all my future work. It might be a bit early, but regardless, the comment I linked to is about the process that has to happen for that kind of change to be seriously considered.