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I know I'm going to be the jerk here so I'll say maybe we don't need jobs? Maybe we need a better distribution of the wealth created? I know folks don't want to

I know I'm going to be the jerk here so I'll say maybe we don't need jobs? Maybe we need a better distribution of the wealth created? I know folks don't want to touch that idea with a 10 foot pole but it's a legitimate question. I'm not saying we need state socialism but maybe we do need some kind of socialism to handle these permanent changes to the economy because automation isn't going to stop just at blue collar skilled jobs. You got legal staff, financial advisors, and many more kinds of work that's on the chopping block once the automation schema is figured out for them (plus/minus time for insurance companies to figure out liabilities). Just shifting us into another bullshit job like marketing or legal isn't going to fix the underlying problem in that work is seen as an end in itself rather than a means to an end (to feed/cloth ourselves). Once we remove the myth that we need to work to live (work in the sense of working in a cubicle or around a table in an office 8-5 and commute to/from said office five times a week) then we can talk about what we should do next.

CPLX 10y ago
There's really no reason we can't have an advanced society with reasonably compensated skilled manufacturing jobs. The Germans and the Swiss have demonstrated as much, for example. Once you take it as fact that it's "impossible" for workers to have rights and a proper social contract in the modern global economy you start acting accordingly and become blind to the fact that it's not inevitable at all. It's important to recognize that our policies towards the working class in this country are deliberate political choices borne of the way power and influence works in our political system, not laws of nature.
- norea-armozel 10y ago
  I think you're missing my point which is that no one should have to have a job to work or to live. Work isn't just 8-5 cubicle or factory setting nonsense. Cleaning your laundry is work. Cooking is work. Telling a story is work. Carving wooden figurines is work. But they don't have to be jobs. They don't have to follow an 8-5 schedule. And most importantly, the benefits of that work doesn't have to be majoratively sold at a discount to capitalists. To have housing, food, or medical care shouldn't come with the condition of repetitive drudgery. If a machine can do the drudgery then get the human out of it as soon as possible. This isn't entirely utopian either considering many kinds of work in textiles and plastics have been automated away. The same goes for building electronics to a point where all most people are tasked with is QA or packing (hell, I've seen machines replace people in packing and warehouse work). What has to change is our legal and social dynamics around who owns the wealth of production. Once we socialize the capital we can discuss whether or not we should have drudgery for it's own sake.

CPLX 10y ago

There's really no reason we can't have an advanced society with reasonably compensated skilled manufacturing jobs. The Germans and the Swiss have demonstrated as much, for example. Once you take it as fact that it's "impossible" for workers to have rights and a proper social contract in the modern global economy you start acting accordingly and become blind to the fact that it's not inevitable at all. It's important to recognize that our policies towards the working class in this country are deliberate political choices borne of the way power and influence works in our political system, not laws of nature.

norea-armozel 10y ago
I think you're missing my point which is that no one should have to have a job to work or to live. Work isn't just 8-5 cubicle or factory setting nonsense. Cleaning your laundry is work. Cooking is work. Telling a story is work. Carving wooden figurines is work. But they don't have to be jobs. They don't have to follow an 8-5 schedule. And most importantly, the benefits of that work doesn't have to be majoratively sold at a discount to capitalists. To have housing, food, or medical care shouldn't come with the condition of repetitive drudgery. If a machine can do the drudgery then get the human out of it as soon as possible. This isn't entirely utopian either considering many kinds of work in textiles and plastics have been automated away. The same goes for building electronics to a point where all most people are tasked with is QA or packing (hell, I've seen machines replace people in packing and warehouse work). What has to change is our legal and social dynamics around who owns the wealth of production. Once we socialize the capital we can discuss whether or not we should have drudgery for it's own sake.